TEC capital ship abilities are a pathetic *@#ing joke.

from Sins Forums
-- Kol

Gauss - Sounds good, until you realize it's blocked by Shield Mitigation. In additon, the Kol has to ever-so-slowly turn to face the attacker to use it. One shot from the main laser array will send shield mitigation to at least 40-50%, the Gauss will almost never do more than half damage, meaning ONLY 400 at level 3. In addition, the antimatter cost of this ability is through the roof for how worthless it is. If you leave it on autocast, the Kol will drain its antimatter trying (and failing) to destroy just one ship.

Flak - This is without a doubt the most pathetic ability I've ever seen. If it were replaced with a button that would self-destruct the ship, I'd probably use it more. Seriously, I've probably destroyed one or two fighters with this (that were speedily replaced). I don't even purchase it any more, or even bother to turn it on auto activate. All it'll do is waste antimatter trying to destroy one fighter, and I'm pretty sure at level 3, it can't even destroy a fighter from 100% health.

Antimatter Shield - Wow, a semi-decent ability. The fact that it consumes more and more antimatter at higher levels is pretty sad though - I thought the point of higher levels was to make the ability better.

Finest Hour - A pretty good ability, as far as level 6's go, I suppose. There's better. It'd be nice if the Kol's perimeter guns did a bit more damage to make this more useful. I can't complain about it, except for the fact that it's one of only two non-shit abilities of the Kol.

-- Sova

Missile Batteries - They're a nice boon to an otherwise defenseless carrier. A decent choice.

Embargo - An ability that becomes more and more useless as the game goes on. Early game it can cripple the enemy and provide a huge boon to your own economy. Late-game it really doesnt' affect the enemy much (as they have many planets, losing one isn't too bad) and you won't notice much income (you can't see how MUCH you're bringing in, which is disappointing at any rate)

Heavy Strike Craft - Every race has something that makes their strikecraft better, and I'm pretty sure that the TEC have the worst strike craft by design. The shit part is that their 'improvement' is a capital ship ability, whereas the Advent are done by research (unsure about the Vasari), meaning ONLY Sova strikecraft get what is effectively a mild improvement. The end result is that it's a DECENT ability as far as the Sova's upgrades, it's really the ONLY ability that helps it do its job better, but in the big picture it's pretty stupid.

Heavy Manufacturing - Really? A level 6 ability that's designed around what? Helping my carrier just in case I'm a retard and got the swarms of strikecraft killed? Are you serious? Oh, my bad, it improves my planets somewhat too - give me a break. One of the most ridiculous level 6 abilities.

-- Akkan

Colonize - Whatever. Every faction has one of these.

Ion Bolt - Oh here we go. The second worst ability in the game, right in front of Flak. Sounds great doesn't it? Paralyze an enemy ship and get some real damage on it - oh what's that? At Level 3, it ONLY LASTS 7 SECONDS? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Hahhahahahahahh! The only reason it's better than the Flak ability is because it can disable a phase jump. Aside from that, this is a complete joke. For comparison, the Advent's "Reverie" ability does the exact same thing, consumes less antimatter, and lasts 4x longer.

Targetting Uplink - It sounds like a good passive ability, until you realize that the base accuracy of all ships is pretty damn high to begin with, and the bonus is pretty low. I've never noticed an improvement whatsoever with this.

Armistice - I've never found a good use for this except running away. This is like Heavy Manufacturing - an ability designed not to help the ship do its job, but to help you in case you're a schmuck and you're about to die. I'd rather NOT have abilities based around RETREATING, thank you. The only other purpose this could have is a temporary delay to bring in reinforcements, but if you're playing on a big map, chancese are this will be a minor boon, at best.

-- Dunov

Shield Restore - Wow, the first ability so far that is actually rather good. The Dunov itself is the only TEC capital ship worth a flying fuck. You can't diss Shield Restore, especially if there's two Dunov's.

EMP Charge - A 'decent' ability. It really doesn't do that much even at level 3, however. It's only really useful for burning Antimatter. The shield portion is pretty damn weak.

Magnetize - Here's the irony of the TEC. Their main battleship has the most pathetic, shit ability in the entire game for destroying fighters, but this big, lumbering, nearly defenseless freighter is armed with the best anti-strikecraft weapon in the game. It not only does damage to enemy ships AND instantly destroy strikecraft, but you can target it at a DISTANCE (so it doesn't only ever hit that ONE fighter cruising past like Flak does), and it lasts quite a while.

Flux Field - Again, a great, solid ability. The Dunov has some of the greatest abilities, but it's a shame that they're all support abilities for OTHER ships, not itself, so even though you have Dunov's, you still have to rely on the other shit capitals.

-- Marza

Radiation Bomb - This is a first for the TEC, a capital ship with abilities that augment what its supposed to do, and do so well. Radiation Bomb isn't the greatest, at any rate, but it's a start for them. The DOT isn't mitigated, but I'm pretty sure the explosion is, so it's really not that lethal. It does last quite a while, but the blast is EXTREMELY small.

Raze Planet - An ability that sounds great until you realize that it's pretty worthless. Populations already die pretty fast, to a barrage, and even at level 3, taking a couple hundred HP off of a 5000 HP target is a sad joke. The cooldown is long, it's pretty much in-line with the other 90% of the TEC abilities, in that you could never use it and you'd never miss it.

Incendiary Rounds - Oh snap. No complaints here. Passive ability that adds a little more unmitigated damage is always nice. Why the TEC didn't think to equip their BATTLESHIP with something that doesn't totally suck is beyond me.

Missile Barrage - *sigh* What exactly is 150 MITIGATED damage going to do? To ANYTHING? It looks pretty, that's about it. I'm pretty sure I'll save the 150 antimatter (or however much it costs) and use Radiation Bomb instead, since it does damn-near the EXACT SAME THING.

--


Seriously, whoever designed these abilities needs to be shot out of a cannon into a wall.

Ion Bolt and Flak are without a doubt the two biggest jokes in line here - Ion Bolt especially since Reverie can be chain-cast almost indefinitely and wipe out a capital one-on-one, but Ion Bolt will just make your enemy laugh at what a worthless douchebag you are.
94,359 views 91 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
You missed the part where Raze Planet also has a chance to make the whole bloody planet uncolonizable.

Good summary though.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
I noticed that the Flak ability hits every fighter/bomber in range, not just one, and takes the typical strikecraft from 100% to about 75% hull. Not so useless, especially if you have multiple Kol's in the same fleet. Also, I've noticed that the Gauss Gun doesn't always aim at what the quad beam cannons are shooting at. I agree that the Gauss Gun damage should bypass Shield Mitigation, tho.

As for TEC strikecraft upgrades, they're tied in to their weapons research tree's. Take a closer look.

Agree about Embargo. Never use it. Same with Rapid Manufacturing; if all my strikecraft are dead, I'm running away. Heavy Fighters is very nice, however.

Armistice is pretty bad; if it didn't also affect FRIENDLY units, it would be OK. As it is, you can use it as a sacrifice move to slow down/stop an enemy fleet while you run away, or (aggressively) catch an enemy fleet with the rest of your fleet.

Ion Bolt also shuts an enemy ship down, which is nice.
SoundPackager - Customize the Windows sound scheme
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Contrary to the OPs position, I've found Armistice to be a great ability under a number of scenarios; one being effectively disabling an entire fleet attacking an unprotected planet (i.e. my fleet not there), long enough to get my fleet back to defend.

Second scenario being an effective ability to hold of an entire counter attacking fleet whilst my fleet is on the offensive. In this scenario I've used two Akkan's to practically indefinitely disable an opponent's entire counter attacking fleet.

Second and RE Embargo; I've found this ability to be excellent in the late game (i.e. embargo at lvl 2)when used to shut down an opponent's line of reinforcements to the main battle front where our two fleets are engaged.

I also disagree with the assessments of the other abilities but will leave comment to others :P
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
I noticed that the Flak ability hits every fighter/bomber in range, not just one, and takes the typical strikecraft from 100% to about 75% hull.


Strike craft break up and end up EXTREMELY split up after one or two strafing runs. Zoom in on an icon and see how many of that squadron are anywhere NEAR it. Chances are, they aren't. The Kol would have to be balls-deep in a mire of strikecraft to actually hit more than a few.

Strikecraft are also free to replace, so anything short of instantly destroying them is simply stupid. 25% damage does what?
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
Uranium, as far as I'm concerned you have half a post there mate. You've done enough crapping on Ironclad, now where's the feedback as to how to improve the game rather than labelling everything as shit?
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Uranium, as far as I'm concerned you have half a post there mate. You've done enough crapping on Ironclad, now where's the feedback as to how to improve the game rather than labelling everything as shit?


I would assume as game developers that Ironclad doesn't need community assistance in how to tweak or overhaul the entire TEC ability set.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Jut to follow Phazon88's lead (hope that 88 is not a signifier :P); so, Uranium, where is your 'feedback' to my rebuff to your comments? :P
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Uranium, as far as I'm concerned you have half a post there mate. You've done enough crapping on Ironclad, now where's the feedback as to how to improve the game rather than labelling everything as shit?
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
Gauss cannons are in reality electromagnetic guns that blast particles at high velocities.

I'm hoping the usage of Gauss in this game is a mistake, as any form of electro magnetism would disable devices and destroy.

A gauss gun or any type of Gauss weapon/railgun should NOT be blocked by any form of technology, it should be able to disable technology.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
Gauss cannons are in reality electromagnetic guns that blast particles at high velocities.


They fire solid projectiles, not EM.
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
A coilgun or Gauss gun is a type of projectile accelerator that uses one or more electromagnetic coils to accelerate a magnetic projectile to high velocity. Coilguns accelerate the projectile using contactless means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauss_Gun

A coilgun uses magnetic dischage without contact.

Granted the disacharge has no electric current, but a magnetic discharge nontheless shouldn't be stopped by technology.

Esp. if it's a big enough discharge.

I guess I wasn't clear. Obviously electro magnetism would disable fast.

And a small gauss gun would only be able to take out small objects.

But were talking gauss cannons on what is warships, 100's of miles long. These should at least be able to disable medium sized ships.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
On the subject of this though, why would the TEC pick a gauss gun, in an age of huge amounts of energy?

It's simply a emp gun shooting plain magnetic particles.

And why does it take huge amounts of antimatter, when it has no electric current running thru it?

If it was a REAL EMP, I'd understand.

The simple fact that railguns have been the preferred method of choice by the Navy since the 70's shows which is the more destructive weapon.
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
After thinking about it, considering how technically advanced the civilizations of Sins is, a Gauss gun is a complete and utter waste.

Even if it's magnetic, considering the amounts of computer tech, if it slams into a huge carrier it'll only take out 3-4 computer systems.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
Zellio, SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF!! :P
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
We don't know what the "Shields" in Sins are made of, so we can't tell if a magnetized projectile shot from a coilgun or railgun will actually do anything to them.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Ion Bolt - Oh here we go. The second worst ability in the game, right in front of Flak. Sounds great doesn't it? Paralyze an enemy ship and get some real damage on it - oh what's that? At Level 3, it ONLY LASTS 7 SECONDS? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Hahhahahahahahh! The only reason it's better than the Flak ability is because it can disable a phase jump. Aside from that, this is a complete joke. For comparison, the Advent's "Reverie" ability does the exact same thing, consumes less antimatter, and lasts 4x longer.


For reference, if you disable a ship with ion bolt, you can still attack it. Reverie just gives your opponent a disabled but invincible ship.
You can decide which is better.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
Zellio, you are not understanding what a gauss gun does. It doesn't fire any sort of EMP anything. It fires giant shells that are magnetic in order to be pulled along the gun by each coil. Magnetism has little to nothing to do with the projectile or its action, only the way it clears the barrel. Your projectile can be anything - it can be a stuffed rabbit with a neodymium high-powered magnet inside, or it can be a giant magnetized slug such as seen in the game. The Navy has only conducted more research into railguns rather than coilguns because the technology is much easier to implement given current technology, however it burns barrels out so quickly as to be useless.

This is a derail though, so let's leave it on topic.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Thanks for being the voice of reason, Carbon. I was going to say that myself, but I had to type up this wall of text.

Originally Posted By PeskyFly
We don't know what the "Shields" in Sins are made of, so we can't tell if a magnetized projectile shot from a coilgun or railgun will actually do anything to them.


They're likely some ultra-high-tech forcefields that we can barely understand from our current technological standpoint.
But it doesn't really matter what the shields are made of, it matters whether the abilities are crap or not. Having crappy abilities for a capital tends to screw that ship over compared to another side's capitals. Balance tends to hold more weight than good background in games like this.

What I propose is either dropping the antimatter cost for the railgun or, more radically, completely removing the cost, but signifnicantly pushing up the reload time, making it somewhat like the Kodiak's Intercept ability.

For the Flak Burst, it should be a one kill on most fighters around the ship at full power and with a much larger radius so it's a lot more worthwhile for getting rid of those gnats buzzing about the ship.

I don't have any complaints for the Ion Bolt ability save for its length, as you said. Pump up the duration or lower the cooldown and antimatter cost and it'd be a lot better.

I never really noticed the bonus for Targetting Uplink past the unit display. Well, look on the bright side: at least it's passive. An upgrade is always appreciated, though...

Keep in mind that the Armistice function is very suiting for the vessel; the Akkan isn't really much of a frontline ship, thus having the ability to have everyone stop shooting would be a very good thing for such a ship. It can both let your fleet retreat in safety, get to places on its own in safety, blah blah blah, you get the picture. It's supposed to be for those moments when you need to get something through a warzone without risking it. It's pretty great for those of us who don't like to lose capitals.

I never really bother all that much with my carriers, to be honest. I just leave most of their abilities on autocast, thus I barely notice the Embargo ability.

Heavy Strike Craft could use a bit of an upgrade...perhaps better health for the squadrons as well? Like, say, 10 HP per level?

Strike craft don't have very long lives and have pretty damn long build times compared to...just about anything you can build. Instant production plus a bonus to everything else doesn't sound bad.

I agree with the Radiation Bomb one. It needs a much larger blast radius to be truly effective.

I agree with Raze Planet, as well. I mean, really, even in background terms, how the Hell does that main gun do so little damage? Wasn't the Marza originally designed for destroying planetoids?

Once more, we're on the same page. I've never really seen any effects from Missile Barrage.
...Hell, I haven't even seen the thing fire despite seeing the cooldown bar for the ability on my ship.
What it needs is a huge damage boost and much better visual effects.

Anyways, that's my two cents.
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
For reference, if you disable a ship with ion bolt, you can still attack it. Reverie just gives your opponent a disabled but invincible ship.You can decide which is better.


Is that why I lost a Carrier to it being chain-cast over and over earlier today? I'd move three feet and get stuck again, while all the little ships just whittled me away while the rest of my fleet desperately tried to intervene.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
A gauss weapon uses magnetic coils to fire metal slugs at near relativistic speeds.
In fact, it fires the projectiles SO fast that they'll practically turn into a cloud of molten energy on their way through the ship. A direct hit through an engine room would be completely disasterous, if not outright fatal.

I think the rail gun should be powerful enough to pierce past shields. After all, it is the single most damaging hit in the game. At the very least, half of the damage should go to the hull, even if the shields are at full capacity.

The flak AoE is incredibly powerful. Against computer players. The computer has a habit of forcing all their fighters/bombers on a very small area. A few taps of flak fire will wipe out even the largest of squadrons. Against humans, they know better than to keep their strike craft around a Kol. Which makes the second bonus effect of it. It keeps fighters away, simply as a deterrent.

Embargo ALSO puts a serious cripple on local frigate factories. This is important to stop the tide of reinforcements that might push you away from a planet.
You missed the part where Raze Planet also has a chance to make the whole bloody planet uncolonizable.
Wait, what? It does 80 damage, just a bit more than a capital ship barrage. Since when does it have an instagib ability?
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
Reverie just gives your opponent a disabled but invincible ship.


Reverie doesn't make your ship invincible. It simply breaks after your ship takes a certain amount of damage.
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
-- Kol

Gauss - Sounds good, until you realize it's blocked by Shield Mitigation. In additon, the Kol has to ever-so-slowly turn to face the attacker to use it. One shot from the main laser array will send shield mitigation to at least 40-50%, the Gauss will almost never do more than half damage, meaning ONLY 400 at level 3. In addition, the antimatter cost of this ability is through the roof for how worthless it is. If you leave it on autocast, the Kol will drain its antimatter trying (and failing) to destroy just one ship.


Thats still a lot of damage compared to what its "main guns" put out. Additionally, later in the game antimatter becomes a lot more plentiful between tech upgrades, culture bonuses, and finest hour.

Flak - This is without a doubt the most pathetic ability I've ever seen. If it were replaced with a button that would self-destruct the ship, I'd probably use it more. Seriously, I've probably destroyed one or two fighters with this (that were speedily replaced). I don't even purchase it any more, or even bother to turn it on auto activate. All it'll do is waste antimatter trying to destroy one fighter, and I'm pretty sure at level 3, it can't even destroy a fighter from 100% health.


No real arguement here -- you need 2-3 Kols to make Flak actually kill fighters, as opposed to simply degrading them. That said, if you can time it to actually engage while the fighters are busy on their alpha strike, you can do a lot of damage with it, making your flak ships lives a lot easier.

Antimatter Shield - Wow, a semi-decent ability. The fact that it consumes more and more antimatter at higher levels is pretty sad though - I thought the point of higher levels was to make the ability better.


It is better at higher levels. Duration and its defensive strength go up, while cooldown goes down. With the high levels of antimatter available at later levels, you can have this almost permanently activated.

Finest Hour - A pretty good ability, as far as level 6's go, I suppose. There's better. It'd be nice if the Kol's perimeter guns did a bit more damage to make this more useful. I can't complain about it, except for the fact that it's one of only two non-shit abilities of the Kol.


The antimatter regen is a godsend for this ability, even ignoring the other (rather nice) abilities it grants. You go from having lots of antimatter to play around with, to effectively unlimited (you can't drain antimatter quicker than this restores using the ships abilities, and most players don't bother with anti antimatter techs).

Embargo - An ability that becomes more and more useless as the game goes on. Early game it can cripple the enemy and provide a huge boon to your own economy. Late-game it really doesnt' affect the enemy much (as they have many planets, losing one isn't too bad) and you won't notice much income (you can't see how MUCH you're bringing in, which is disappointing at any rate)


Yeah, it looses some utility in later game as far as income drain... but the ability to halt (for all intents and purposes) the enemies ability to build at that planet, be it replacement defenses or additional ships from his factories, can be highly useful.

Heavy Strike Craft - Every race has something that makes their strikecraft better, and I'm pretty sure that the TEC have the worst strike craft by design. The shit part is that their 'improvement' is a capital ship ability, whereas the Advent are done by research (unsure about the Vasari), meaning ONLY Sova strikecraft get what is effectively a mild improvement.


Um... all there races have carriers with some form of fighter improvement for them. All three races have damage/HP improvements in their tech trees for their fighters. The only Advent tech I can think of that qualifies for what your talking about is that hangar bays get 2 extra fighters from one of their techs. Not their fighter craft in general; only their defensively stationed ones.

The end result is that it's a DECENT ability as far as the Sova's upgrades, it's really the ONLY ability that helps it do its job better, but in the big picture it's pretty stupid.


That fighter upgrade is nice -- not great, but nice. 30% damage from a signifigant number of fighters (up to 7 squads at level 10) is nice.

Heavy Manufacturing - Really? A level 6 ability that's designed around what? Helping my carrier just in case I'm a retard and got the swarms of strikecraft killed? Are you serious? Oh, my bad, it improves my planets somewhat too - give me a break. One of the most ridiculous level 6 abilities.


Here, again, I have to agree. This is a sub-par ability -- mainly because of implementation. If fighters were actually replaced instantly, I'd like it a lot more, but they still have to have their anti-matter cost paid, as well as having a slight delay between two separate fighters. If the fighters were really "instantly" replaced, it might actually be nice.

-- Akkan

Colonize - Whatever. Every faction has one of these.


Yes, every faction has a colonize ability -- and each faction has a different bonus from it! The TEC one involving free mines is a little iffy though, given that when colonizing a planet you just took from the enemy, often you can't get the mines because his mines are "in the way".

Ion Bolt - Oh here we go. The second worst ability in the game, right in front of Flak. Sounds great doesn't it? Paralyze an enemy ship and get some real damage on it - oh what's that? At Level 3, it ONLY LASTS 7 SECONDS? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Hahhahahahahahh! The only reason it's better than the Flak ability is because it can disable a phase jump. Aside from that, this is a complete joke. For comparison, the Advent's "Reverie" ability does the exact same thing, consumes less antimatter, and lasts 4x longer.


Your overlooking this things real power. Not only does it break phase jump, but its cheap, and its spamable. At higher levels, you can literally chain cast it so your enemy never gets to do anything.

Oh, and reverie has its own problems -- while it can do the break jumping part, it can't be used to permanently disable a ship, because incoming damage breaks the ability.

Targetting Uplink - It sounds like a good passive ability, until you realize that the base accuracy of all ships is pretty damn high to begin with, and the bonus is pretty low. I've never noticed an improvement whatsoever with this.


Its useful when engaging fighters with your flaks, as thats pretty much the only time your going to see a miss.

Armistice - I've never found a good use for this except running away. This is like Heavy Manufacturing - an ability designed not to help the ship do its job, but to help you in case you're a schmuck and you're about to die. I'd rather NOT have abilities based around RETREATING, thank you. The only other purpose this could have is a temporary delay to bring in reinforcements, but if you're playing on a big map, chancese are this will be a minor boon, at best.


Well, you don't have to take the ability if you don't want to. But I've seen it used to devestating effect in both retreat and reinforcement approaches.

EMP Charge - A 'decent' ability. It really doesn't do that much even at level 3, however. It's only really useful for burning Antimatter. The shield portion is pretty damn weak.


Except that, IIRC, its an AoE ability -- thus it doesn't just hit one ships shields, it hits a bunch.

Missile Barrage - *sigh* What exactly is 150 MITIGATED damage going to do? To ANYTHING? It looks pretty, that's about it. I'm pretty sure I'll save the 150 antimatter (or however much it costs) and use Radiation Bomb instead, since it does damn-near the EXACT SAME THING.


150 damage, to every single unit in range. Yeah, it could use an upgrade, but don't knock it too hard. In team games, this can get combined with the Vasari's nannite ultimate (increases all damage done to effected enemy ships, and causes them to blow up in an AoE detonation) as a very nice "starter" damage. Which is half the reason its so low, probably.

Ion Bolt and Flak are without a doubt the two biggest jokes in line here - Ion Bolt especially since Reverie can be chain-cast almost indefinitely and wipe out a capital one-on-one, but Ion Bolt will just make your enemy laugh at what a worthless douchebag you are.


Simply because one ability is overshadowed by a similar ability held by another race, does not make it anywhere close to useless.
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
Reverie doesn't make your ship invincible. It simply breaks after your ship takes a certain amount of damage.


Huh... My ships refused to attack a ship that had reverie cast upon it... is this a bug? (That was my only capital in the fleet at the time, so it can't have been another cap ship power.)
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top


Huh... My ships refused to attack a ship that had reverie cast upon it... is this a bug? (That was my only capital in the fleet at the time, so it can't have been another cap ship power.)


It shouldn't refuse to engage, but reverie is supposed to prevent your ships from auto-acquiring the target for the duration.
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
It doesn't, but after you use it on a planet, and the planet dies, there's a pretty good chance you won't be able to colonize due to radiation. Which is a load of bull, since it didn't do anything to te people already living on the rock in the first place :P
Yeah, I agree, TEC special abilities are mostly lackluster(all Kol and Sova abilities are, imho, pretty weaksauce), but they do have some good ones like Ion Bolt(woe to anyone who doesn't appreciate it) and, well, the entire ability tree of the Akkan.
Gauss damage should be pretty much doubled. It's a primary battleship ability that does less damage than, say, Jarrasul's(IMHO the best allround ship) Nano Disassemblers.