I forgot how good MOM is

You know, until I started playing Sins, I would have said "Amen" to the No RTS admonition that you made.

I think, if you did it in the same sedate style that Sins has for Real Time, you could make a sequel to MOM and do it in Real Time.

I wouldn't want it in the same sort of frentic pace as, say, Rise of Legends, but I could deal with a RTS which was more like Sins.

I disagree: keep it TBS. There are plenty of RTS games out there. I agree that Sins is way better than the usual frantic click fest, but MOM would not be MOM in real time. I loved MOM, it was better than Civ and MOO in many ways. I can't wait to see what Stardock can do with their upcoming 'fantasy strategy that is not officially MoM 2' game.

TBS is the only way to go. Sins is a fairly run of the mill Supreme Commander/Homeworld hybrid and doesn't represent a revolution in much of anything, I think Jvstin likes RTS's a lot more than he thinks he does. Regardless, any MoM follow up needs to be turn based (or at most real time in the vein of an EU2, but really what would be the point of that?)

Aye MOM is still a great game to play. Any succesor would have to be turnbased imo. I do enjoy SoaSE a lot, but it doesn't replace the feeling/gameplay that GalCiv II gives me. For instance I find me often not watching a battle in SoaSE, which I enjoy a lot because something else in my empire needs attention. In Galciv II I can really sit back and enjoy the show.

I also feel that while realtime might work for SoaSE, it won't for a fantasy title. Kohan did this best I feel (but that wasn't a real empire building game), but even there you had a lot of rushers.

Turnbased is still the best way I feel for 4X games. RTS has it place, but certainly also has big downsides.

Agreed. You definitely can't play RTS in a train.

The gameplay that made MoM so good, for myself at least, was the zoom in to tactical combat from the main campaign map. I loved it when I got beetles (only a unit or 2, as they were so expensive to maintain,) and could summon skeleton units to plug holes in my lines for example.

A little like the original Total War games captured, the mix of TBS and RTS was a winning formula, until Creative Assembly sacrificed gameplay for graphics that is, and I stopped buying/playing them.

Yes it's true, game play has gone out of the window, graphics is all that matters. RTS games may not automatically represent a logical step forward, look at the state of PC gaming as we speak, in a time when Real Time Strategy is dominant. Oh there are many other factors at play, but PC gaming has declined so badly, new titles are either converted from consoles, or cloned from other semi-successful titles. There are a few exceptions, like faint lights in the Dark Ages of PC gaming.

MoM was in a crude sense "Fantasy Civilization", but the game play truly sucked you in, and that's what you can call the real magic of that title.


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If you think game play has gone out the window, you are looking at the wrong games. Armageddon Empires, Dominions3, and Dwarf Fortress are all awesome games where gameplay was put first.

To TheRealWarpstorm. I looked up Dwarf Fortress after reading your post, and have to say that it's absolutely brilliant. I used most of the night learning the basics, and it was a blast. Thank you.

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You know, a system a having our cake and eating it would be similar to the Total War series... turn-based strategy, real time battles. I dabbled in trying to make a MoM : Total War mod but it was beyond my abilities and I didn't really have the time to devote to it to do it justice.

I've played Sins quite a bit now, I just won my first gigantic game against the AI with 4 opponents, 5 stars, and a hundred planets. That was intense. Anyway, I like Sins, but I like the way a game runs at *my* pace when it's turn based. I really don't understand why game makers are so in love with RTS.

I do understand it. RTS strategies are quicker. A lot of people prefer to play two or three games per session rather than one very long. If plenty of people like it plenty of them buy it.

I understand why game makers are in love with making RTS games. Generally RTS games sell a lot more copies than TBS games do. Most game makers enjoy making money, and especially publishers!

Well, then let me rephrase that, I don't understand why people like RTS so much. I don't think it's that great. It doesn't take long for the few I've played to feel like a pointless click fest. Sins has a more relaxed pace so I like that one a lot more than any of the others I've played.

I agree with that. I personally got bored of RTS games after Red Alert. Most RTS games seem to follow such a standard formula that there's not a lot to differentiate between them, and too often they come down to a click fest.

I guess the problem with TBS games is they appeal to an older generation of gamer, and it's just not sustainable for the big publishers to make games that don't appeal to a large market. They generally don't have flashy graphics or the instant gratification that can be found in RTS games, and require a lot of patience, which I guess is lacking in many people, particularly those brought up with console games. It's just fortunate that there are enough gamers out there who still appreciate this style of game, so that well made games such as Galciv2 still have a decent following.

SOASE is very tempting though, I plan to try the demo when it's released and will probably get it. Overall I really like the games that Stardock make/publish. Will probably get PM2008 as well even though I'm not American, just looks like such a unique and fun game that I'd love to try it out.

Definitely wait for the demo on that one, it's a lot more like a typical RTS than its made out to be. The scale is bigger and the pace is slower, but there's still a "correct" build order and every game plays out the same as the last.

Yea, the game is very RTS, but for me, there's a lot to like about it. For one, it takes place in space. I'm into all things science and science fiction so that appeals to me right out of the gate. I'm a single player and the game has pretty good AI. On the downside, the game tends to play the same every time so that's going to be a source of boredom eventually. However, the play is interesting. It has scerene periods of doing this and that interrupted by periods of excitement. Even the music sets a pleasant tone. It has a really good map editor and I've recently started playing custom maps. That provides an extra avenue of interest. If they can evolve the game to incorporate multiple styles of play, it has the potential to be as replayable as GC2. They have a lot planned for it so we'll see what happens in future updates.

That's... not a universally held opinion, suffice it to say. I'd say the AI is quite weak, myself, and I'm not a high level player.

Well, it's good enough for me. I'm sure I'd get my behind handed to me in a multi-player game.

/kid mode

Yeah MOM is good. Esp. yours.

/Non kid mode

What is MOM?

Also MoM, formally called Master of Magic, and arguably a better successor to Sid Meir's Civilization than Master of Orion was. If you want details, see the
MoM Wikipedia page.

I loved MoM too, but found a good substitute in Age of Wonders 2. It's older now too, but maintains many of the great elements of MoM with newer graphics and terrific gameplay.

I would love to see MoM remade. Ah, the good ole days.

Arras

Yea, MOM is still awesome.
Age of wonders 2 is better (but not shadow magic, that one is no fun :()

"Why don't they make games people want to play?" - ha, that is a good question. Same one asked by many people, including the guys at stardock.

Really, it beats me, some companies think that making the most boring and pretty game will appeal to the "extreme gamer". Some imaginary personality construct in their mind that likes things different then anyone else. Specifically, they don't enjoy fun, but they care only how things look like.

I fear it isn't really that complicated, and the fear is because the simplicity means it might not change any time soon. Basically, sales and marketing folks have too much influence in too many organizations because they can put on a better show of "market data analysis" and whatnot.

They spend too much time in sales and marketing meetings, and instead of spending the rest of their working time trying to understand what customers want and enjoy, they must work hard to keep the budget patronage of folks who spend too much time in "executive" meetings.

This is all likely to get even worse after those new-fangled pocket projectors are solidly on the market. Nowhere will be safe from PowerPoint or porn. Restaurant ceilings, the back seats of school buses, bathroom walls, your own front door if you don't get in it quickly enough--all at risk.

I will get *truly* worried if Dave Langford's mind-killing BLITs are displayed using that technology.