Replayability?

from Sins Forums

I'm curious as to how the fans feel about the lasting appeal of this game.  In most “RTS’s” there are several viable strategies that actually change the way you play the game.  Examples would be a rush to disrupt someone’s economy, or an early economic boon to try to gain the advantage later. 

In Sins, I haven’t seen too many different strategies.  Because of the nature of the game, rushes are out of the question.  Even if someone wanted to pull one off, they’d have to put up with all the neutral planets fighters in the way between him and his enemy and the slow bombardment speed of planets.  Most Sins gamers like the fact that you cannot rush; I feel rather indifferent towards it.  It does underscore a potential problem, though.  Playing with any race, every game starts to feel the same.  People expand a little, establish an economy, then it’s mainly a battle of numbers.   I don’t feel like I have the freedom to actually do anything different.

Sins has the potential to have different strategies, but it doesn’t seem to live up to it.  For example, a player cannot attempt to turtle to win the game by culture; the only thing they can do is to establish an economy then start producing military units.

What do you guys think?  Am I completely wrong when I say that there are not many strategies?  I should also note that I’m talking mainly about multiplayer, and things like “Vasari should research phase missiles against Advent” are more tactical in nature, since they don’t really change the way you play the game.

19,415 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
I think the research, economic and pirates (yes, pirates) aspects offer more strategy than a typical RTS.

All RTSes in the end is about who has the stronger army/navy/whatever. But many of the late-game research are game-breakers. Trade routes and taking key planets are game-breakers. Fleet tactics can make a difference.

Even though culture can't win a game, it can swing it to one side's favour. I think Ironclad had stated previously that winning is suppose to RTS-like, so that's why wins by culture alone is highly unlikely.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
If you play on random maps, I think each game is going to be a new situation, and so as far as how you go about conquering the map and dealing with your opponent is going to be different every time. You might build similar armadas each time, or maybe not, depending on how the game flows.

So I don't see having concrete strategies laid out for each sort of encounter, simply because the randomness of the maps makes it a bad idea to try and fit a square peg into a round hole... so to speak.
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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
I'm curious as to how the fans feel about the lasting appeal of this game.  In most “RTS’s” there are several viable strategies that actually change the way you play the game.  Examples would be a rush to disrupt someone’s economy, or an early economic boon to try to gain the advantage later. 
In Sins, I haven’t seen too many different strategies.  Because of the nature of the game, rushes are out of the question.  Even if someone wanted to pull one off, they’d have to put up with all the neutral planets fighters in the way between him and his enemy and the slow bombardment speed of planets.  Most Sins gamers like the fact that you cannot rush; I feel rather indifferent towards it.  It does underscore a potential problem, though.  Playing with any race, every game starts to feel the same.  People expand a little, establish an economy, then it’s mainly a battle of numbers.   I don’t feel like I have the freedom to actually do anything different.
Sins has the potential to have different strategies, but it doesn’t seem to live up to it.  For example, a player cannot attempt to turtle to win the game by culture; the only thing they can do is to establish an economy then start producing military units.
What do you guys think?  Am I completely wrong when I say that there are not many strategies?  I should also note that I’m talking mainly about multiplayer, and things like “Vasari should research phase missiles against Advent” are more tactical in nature, since they don’t really change the way you play the game.


i don't have a clue what you're talking about. just random everything. there's so many things to do and so many ways to do them. even with techs alone. do you go high tech military or civilian or a bit of both. do you colonize or fight. do you turtle and go after later. there's so many different things and different ways to do those things, that i think it's the most replayable game ive ever tried.

garrett

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
i don't have a clue what you're talking about. just random everything. there's so many things to do and so many ways to do them. even with techs alone. do you go high tech military or civilian or a bit of both. do you colonize or fight. do you turtle and go after later. there's so many different things and different ways to do those things, that i think it's the most replayable game ive ever tried.garrett


I guess that's what I disagree about. There are many tech options, but for the most part I never feel like they change the way I play the game. Also, the options to 'colonize or fight' is a little shortsighted, as you must colonize since you cannot fight right off the bat, then you must fight after colonization.

No matter what, I find myself doing the same things. Expand a little, build a big fleet, kill someone. I don't have little hit and run squads, they're not effective at anything. I don't have to try to manage a battle (cap ships aside) as units sit there and fire head on.

I could go on, but I just wanted to see if anyone else thought that no matter what you do, you'll get a very similar gameplay experience almost every time.

Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
"Because of the nature of the game, rushes are out of the question."

...and yet one of the biggest complaints about "overpowered" tactics has been the bomber rush.

The game moves slowly, but it's still a rush if it's an all-out early build that the enemy had to anticipate to counter. Just because it takes 10 minutes doesn't make it any less a rush.

And you most certainly can turtle - defenses are extremely cost effective, and if backed up with a small fleet can make raids very difficult. A second jump to get past the outer system generally means a very low plasma level on the other side - if your fleet is waiting in that second system at optimal range with full plasma, and with repair platforms behind, it's amazing how much pain you can dish out. Get by on a lower fleet cap and you have the resources to tech up, develop further, and eventually overtake the enemy.

The game plays quite differently depending on your initial focus - civ or mil tech? Which capships do you build your fleets around - or do you largely ignore capships for more DPS (I do)? With Vasari I might keep my head down, run for civilian tech, get pirates to delay the enemy, and only go for basic military tech once I have trade online, then plow down the civ line for returning armada. Other games I go straight for missile frigates and a fleet upgrade, and run straight for the enemy's fleet and orbital structures to knock them out early, pure zerg. Some times I chew through pirates for XP, other times I run straight past them to hit the enemy while his fleet is out. Sometimes I go for early ice / molten tech to build a good defensive position around my starting area, other times I just rush all the asteroids I can get to pull down massive income fast.

And I'm still learning.

So no, I don't agree that games play out the same way. They only do if you chose to play them the same way every time - and even then, as other posters have mentioned, random or player-made maps give you heaps to think about. Certainly, for me at least, there's no end of replayability in sight. And that's not even looking at mods.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
It might be because the game is still new, but I see a surprising number of strategies to employ for each faction, depending on the tech side you want to focus on (military or civil), the type of units (capital ship heavy, frigate/cruiser heavy) and what kinds of units to actually use.

In most other RTS games I've played, each faction has one or two strategies that are actually viable to win with. Other strategies might be somewhat effective, but against one of winning strategies it's wholly dependent on the other player messing up.

I assume this may change as the game gets older and what strategies work best come out, but so far there seems to be a fairly good mix of strategies that can be viable, depending on the map and factions at play.

And personally, I don't miss rushes. Rushes are semi-possible in this game with a quick group of LMRs and Siege Frigates or something similar, but it's a huge risk. If rushes were more viable it would be like most games where they are the way to play, which isn't what I was looking for in this game. Most people want to win, and want to win fast, so if a rush strategy were very effective, it would quickly dominate the game. Sure an ACU at my base Overcharging my buildings in Supreme Commander, or the Zerglings killing my SCV's can be a fun sometimes, but I like how this game is a bit different.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
I... cant... stop... playing...

yup, that about sums it up. its all replayable, and theres a lot of "all".
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Pirates offer some variety in strategy where you can go full economy and let them fight wars for you, would of course be more awesome if you can put bounty on allies as well coz economic backstabbing is cool.