Anyone Else Missing The Two +10 PQ Tech Tree Bonuses?

I just checked my tech file and the bonus doesn't seem to be listed in the techs that had it.

~SDC~

They've been removed, probably in an effort to discourage some of the score hording people were doing for the metaverse.

Vorlin, they put the +5PQ pick back in the latest version.

Hmm, that's not right. I mean, if the metaverse algorithm has been adjusted to take into account your time, not give populations such weight, etc., why would one of the few endgame planetary bonuses get taken out?

Whether you're hording for score or not, that global 10% bonus made a huge difference in your planet's research and production

Nicolas, I was referring to a couple of the 'super techs' that you get near the end of the game, Galactic Creation is one I think, can't remember the other's name, both used to give +10 PQ along with one or two other boosts.

Thanks everyone, I figured they'd been removed but wanted to make sure my files weren't corrupted or something since apparently some people had some bad downloads when they updated.

The question is though: if they were removed intentionally, why wasn't it documented anywhere in the history for the new patch? This is more significant than bumping the defense of a ship a few points and this thread is the first mention I've seen of it.

They've definitely gone

Here's an extract from a v1.02 GCTech.tech

//------------------------------------------------------------------------
TECH 83 NearOmnipotence
//------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name "Near Omnipotence"
Model ""
Tech_Requirement "NearOmnicience"
Research_Cost 94430
Overview "With access to what scientists are referring to as the 'the console' we just need to enter the correct code and we will enter a new state of being that is technically referred to as 'God Mode'"
Description "Devices of incredible power are now extremely inexpensive and easy to fashion. Future wars will likely result in the destruction of one of the involved races. In other words, nobody better mess with us."
Tech_Category 1
Ability "Hitpoints"
Ability "PlanetQuality"
Ability "MilitaryProduction"
ENDTECH

//------------------------------------------------------------------------
TECH 85 GalacticCreation
//------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name "Galactic Creation"
Model ""
Tech_Requirement "NearOmnipotence"
Research_Cost 94200
Overview "Creating new galaxies is actually pretty easy, provided you have the right ingredients."
Description "Intergalactic Military Machines (IMM) and GalactCorp recently merged to form Creator Corporation. The new company recently released the Creator Device. It can create an entire galaxy! The software involved is extremely complex, but the actual creation of the galaxy does not require much mass to accomplish. The only drawback to the device is that its range is limited. As if this should be a problem when creating an entirely new galaxy.

David Haran, spokesperson for Creator had this to say: 'You don't want to just create a new galaxy right in the middle of an existing one, the gravitational forces involved would tear apart both galaxies.'

Unfortunately, the devastating weapon potential for this new technology outweighs its beneficial uses."
Tech_Category 2
Ability "Hitpoints"
Ability "PlanetQuality"
ENDTECH



And from 1.03:



//------------------------------------------------------------------------
TECH 83 NearOmnipotence
//------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name "Near Omnipotence"
Model ""
Tech_Requirement "NearOmnicience"
Research_Cost 94430
Overview "With access to what scientists are referring to as the 'the console' we just need to enter the correct code and we will enter a new state of being that is technically referred to as 'God Mode'"
Description "Devices of incredible power are now extremely inexpensive and easy to fashion. Future wars will likely result in the destruction of one of the involved races. In other words, nobody better mess with us."
Tech_Category 1
Ability "Hitpoints"
Ability "MilitaryProduction"
ENDTECH

//------------------------------------------------------------------------
TECH 85 GalacticCreation
//------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name "Galactic Creation"
Model ""
Tech_Requirement "NearOmnipotence"
Research_Cost 94200
Overview "Creating new galaxies is actually pretty easy, provided you have the right ingredients."
Description "Intergalactic Military Machines (IMM) and GalactCorp recently merged to form Creator Corporation. The new company recently released the Creator Device. It can create an entire galaxy! The software involved is extremely complex, but the actual creation of the galaxy does not require much mass to accomplish. The only drawback to the device is that its range is limited. As if this should be a problem when creating an entirely new galaxy.

David Haran, spokesperson for Creator had this to say: 'You don't want to just create a new galaxy right in the middle of an existing one, the gravitational forces involved would tear apart both galaxies.'

Unfortunately, the devastating weapon potential for this new technology outweighs its beneficial uses."
Tech_Category 2
Ability "Hitpoints"
ENDTECH

Notice the absence of Ability "PlanetyQuality" in the new version.



~SDC~

Yea, we did take that out, forgot to document it.

The problem is that that massive of a planet production bonus started making micro management a bit of a pain and really messed with the game balance. It was put in before the Excalibur ship.

I'm not really seeing the balance issue except to say that it seems way out of whack now. It's now pretty much: he who gets the Terraformer wins the production race and therefore the game.
Before at least the other races could count on being able to largely smooth out the late game benefits of that wonder with those techs.

Now they're just overpriced speed bumps which serve *NO* purpose other than delaying a tech win and/or access to Excaliburs.

If things stay as they are and these remain "overpriced speed bumps" and Metaverse data supports the assumption that in smaller galaxies, the game is almost always decided long before tech victory, then how about removing some of the final slog techs when the galaxy is tiny or small to make it more roughly contemporaneous with the other victories?

I would tend to agree with Code Monkey. Removing those two PQ tech makes the game less interesting and diversified.

I'm somewhat disappointed with the way "Terraforming" is handled in GalCiv : as all we have are straight % bonuses, large bonuses can't be used "just" for making some choice planets super-good, but to the contrary rather allow for mass colonization of previously crappy planets...
In MoO 1&2 I loved transforming my main worlds into "Gaia" super planets, now I'm stuck with Earth PQ 20-some (excluding some events..), sad
What would be needed for this are "floored bonuses", that would apply only to planets already having PQ more than a given value (15 to 20).
So we could enhance a previously habitable world, but still not make anything out of a gas giant !

In the meantime I also miss the previous bonuses, and think of putting them back and/or using a modified version of JoB Impr Terraforming mod (the +40% and +60% PQ bonuses of the techs just were way too big, but +15% and another +20% would suit me fine).
However I fear this would invalidate my games for the Metaverse, so I'm still hesitating...

The bright side is that Brad seems to at least partially agree with me (see http://www.galciv.com/forum.asp?BID=GF&id=54219 ), so we should see some sort of "balanced" reinstatement or at least cost reduction of these speed bumps down the road.

Although, pdifolco, what is wrong with being able to colonise a lower class planet if you're both nearly omnipotent and have mastered the secrets of galactic creation? The other terraforming techs make it possible, but costly - soil enhancement + improved habitat only give you a total bonus of +20, even with the new +7 that still means that anything less than a base class 15 is going to give you grief endgame unless you have the Terraformer wonder. Even with the removed bonuses present and the racial +7 a 13 was really the lowest you could go profitably.

pdifolco, I don't think the Enhanced Terraforming mod will invalidate your score. There's three techs which give you two social projects, and all of them are expensive. Its the social projects that give the PQ bonus (+10% each), and the AI has access to them as well.

It seems to me, that in several threads now, they (Frogboy and company) have to do a delicate balancing act between Metaverse scoring and gameplay. I can certainly appreciate the difficulty in that decision-making. My hope that is if they have to err on one side or the other, please err in favor of gameplay. Continued fun and interest in the gameplay will expand the life of this game more than what happens on the metaverse, IMHO.

~SDC~

If the question is between Metaverse scoring and gameplay, no offense to all those "empires" out there, but the Metaverse can take a flying leap.

Nicolas: either you're mistaken, or there's more than one "enhanced terraforming" tech in the library. the one I'm aware of has two social projects at +40% and +60%, and that can be seriously unbalancing.

For Metaverse purposes, "the AI has access to them too" doesn't wash in this case because a +100% to PQ will seriously boost your morale and/or population, and if I'm not mistaken, both of them factor into the final score.

Another vote for gameplay. Actually I'd never noticed the late terraforming, but I think they're a great idea. I suspect most users are like me in that they never post to the metaverse; its a game to relax with after work rather than a competition. So, what happens wrt patching if I add those effects back into the files? Do I have to re-add them everytime I patch galciv? They look kind of nice. :notsure:

I'm pretty sure new Terraforming techs can lead to Metaverse score invalidation, because those scores are "absolute", based on player population, morale, etc.., independantly of alien performances - that's how I've understood it at least..

So even if all races can get the tech, the games will then give higher scores than vanilla GalCiv, thus the problem .

I'm happy to see the final two +10% PQ removed. By the time you researched them you were only a few turns away from tech victory and hence of no need to normal players. Only players who had disabled tech victory or who purposely held back from going for it benefitted. They gained a huge population and production increase for NOT trying to finish the game quickly. If people want more terraforming bonuses then they should be added as techs NOT on the tech victory research route.

Paul.

~SDC~