Diplomacy useless - can ruin a game

it has more problems than that.

don't get me wrong I like the game.

but at least at the single player lvl there is no strategy.


You build a big fleet faster than the AIs can build theirs.


you then send in said fleet to wipe out theirs. no strategy.

Sadly... I have to agree... I have played 3 games with my roommate (one allied.. and two in FFA format).

A few things I should note:

1) I have never lost a game... No i'm not godly... its just EASY. The only "difficulty" in the game is the massive fleets of siege that jump in and out of systems, destroy planets, and run away. They're annoying but easy enough to deal with.

2) I have never actually finished a game... We crashed out over and over during multiplayer in one game so we had to start fresh a few days later. After probably 3-4 hours of playing we both had huge fleets and controlled countless planets. HOWEVER the computer refused to die... we spent too much time running between systems trying to destroy the last few ships... only to get sieged and colonized on some other front (which we quickly destroyed).

3) As far as I can tell "control" or "faction" or "influence"... whatever it scalled between the different races... Is also useless... I actually built 4 planets with MAXED influence buildings and research... ALL the lines between systems were my color... Yet nothing happened... It just doesn't seem useful to waste resources and time on it.

4) Only one victory condition makes the game VERY bland after the first hour or so of build-up and struggle.

5) "Unique" races aren't all that unique. The capital ships are more or less the same (even ordered the same on the build menu)... while they do have different special abilities the general function and weapons on each ship are the same. You also end up building the same structures and massing the same ships.

6) My roommate quit playing and refuses to ever play again for one simple reason.. siege units... Even in 1.02 they're just stupid... And its not just the AI...

I find it much easier to mass a few siege, one colony ship.. rush in and destroy the planet.. colonize it quickly... then upgrade some turrets and hangers quickly to finish off the system slowly while I repeat the process on the next world...

This game has GREAT potential... but honestly seems to have fallen short. I hope the modding community will pick up where the Devs left off and provide us with a rich and lasting game!

Look at Warcraft III... the modding community for that is AMAZING! A single mod alone (dota) was and is keeping it alive! I hope to see the same for this game!

That's because you don't know what it does.





Haha. No, thanks.

Are you building Cobalts to take out those seige frigates? Are you scouting ahead to see them coming? Are your Guass Defenses all clogged up against the grav well or protecting your planet? Are you using bombers? 

Check out these tips: https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?forumid=402&aid=175318#1446763

I find FFA with Diplomacy fantastic, I would have to disagree with some of you. I like to be in 2nd or 3rd place, ally with someone below me and stomp #1

I think most people play Locked Teams but that can really stink. One person gets pummeled by an enemy and they drop, then the whole team drops. It's almost over in 10 minutes which is no fun, but it is a win. :p

FFA is my main course, play locked teams with some chaps of mine and talk on VoIP.

The problem I find with FFA is that if you don't jump through their hoops...I mean missions, then it will quickly become a 7 versus 1. At least in the ones I've played so far. So if I play FFA I lock teams so it's a real free for all.

I played a few games over the last day or so, including some with the new 1.02 patch.

The computer player really needs to be reprogrammed to be more agressive towards each other. If you're playing a game where you end up sharing a border with multiple AI opponents they will ignore each other to trash you. I was held up fighting a massive battle against red in my own system, continually pouring in reserves to try and counter his seemingly indestructible capitol ships. Whenever I built up any kind of counter force, I would start out well, but my ships would continually pick stupid targets and rush off across the gravity well to engage siege frigates entering the system. Leaving my capitols stranded and forcing me to withdraw them or lose them under his apocalyptic bombardment.

Furthermore despite me occupying the entire enemy fleet of note, (all 5 of his capitols were in this system, and according to the final report that was all he had) the other AI units never attacked him, or tried to stab him in the back. In fact they simply launched continual attacks against me. I was forced to divide my capitol forces, to have any chance of defending my borders and it was thus impossible to put enough of a force against him to drive him off. I only held the line by continually building new hangers and turrets and ordering them to engage any siege units.

I was desperate for any kind of alliance, but all I could get was stabbed in the back, Diplomacy desperately needs to be reworked and give you positive relations in exchange for gifts, and show you the AI relations. If I dont know who is at war with who, how can I make informed choices.

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have to agree with this

Like the game but have to agree on

Missions + Time Limit = Diplomacy = Epic Fail.

Diplomacy looks really good on paper, but it pains me to agree that at the moment it is implemented as an afterthought :/

However, this is not a top priority in my book, as this is a RTS game, which mainly deals with combat and units. And like in almost any RTS game (except the ancient Seven Kingdoms series), I simply ignore diplomacy altogether.

Yeah, 7 Kingdoms had excellent diplomacy.

I do love this game, but Diplomacy is a not a very diplomacy in A.I or single player, I spend and give ton resoure to who I want set for peace or case-fire, still 0% and didn't want case-fire or peace, maybe it's should be hard to be allies, but set for peace or case-fire, or even trade yet A.I is ungrafeful, it's seem. My fleet seem can't do anything, they alwasy busy to keep my empire safe unless happan they ask mission to destory ship enemies happan to enter where my fleet wait for them (Rare, and good chance is hit 0%. Anyway give a ton resoure at least $10,000 is a lot for me in early of game, still 0% unless given by mission, I'm try to set-up case-fire and peace like real world. I think mission should only happan after you set-up with peace or trade agressment with other factions but if no longer mission or rather simple mission come back like give resoure mission when you come back to same level of peace or case-fire last to the war. but if trade agressment, it's wont be simple mission for stay on trade agreement or allies. Can Ironcland and Stardock and fan like this better? I dont know why simple give resoure of your free will to factions still set 0% even it's did work, it's should not costly to get peace unless you attack them again and again before in that game.

Agreed; the lack of actual diplomacy really hurts the game in my view. To me its the single largest problem with the game; interaction with other empires is a completely unpolished mechanic that pretty much stands as the pinnacle of the sacrifices Ironclad made in making a 4x game in the RTS format. Even though its an RTS, there needs to be a proper, fleshed out diplomacy mechanic.

Its not an easy thing to do, considering the game. Most of the things one would do in diplomacy in these games is out; tech trading just doesn't fit. Nor does planet trading. But, it simply has to be made more than missions you often have no chance of completing. The time limit on them, while annoying at times, isn't even the main issue -- its that you often don't even have access to the people they want you to go hit. The AI logic for diplomacy fails, hard, and it makes a bad mechanic even worse.

And its a pity, because it drags down an otherwise amazing game that married the RTS and 4x formats so well in other areas.

We have always been at war with Eurasia.

I want to post a screen but i can't.
All this with patch 1.02

I have the following scenario. A planet of mine full shielded and with 2 fleets:

Fleet 1:
Kol Batleship x1
Cobalt light frigate x16
Javelis LRM frugate x16
Hoshiko robotic cruiser x1
Kodiak heavy cruiser x1
Cielo command cruiser x1

Fleet 2
Sova carrier x1
Kodiak Heavy cruiser x5
Javelis LRM frigate x4
Cobalt light friagte x6
Dunnov battlecruiser x1

Then a enemy Siege raid COMPOSED ONLY OF SIEGE FRIGATES, from a vasary enemy arrives at my planet, nukes it to hell and destroy it completely and jump back. WITH MINOR LOSES.

I should assume that is working as intended?

It's my understanding that Stardock doesn't want this to be "almost any other RTS game". A deeper diplomatic game would certainly be welcome.

A.I should not alwasy war with everyone by logic, because that's make them weaker, should be war at one a time if they are able to, though should not alwasy pick human for war over other A.I unless human want war or it's close by and weaker or same level. A.I should try out peace with everyone if they are weak, but not alwasy though. Dont know, just though.

Sadly, it seems to be yes. IC seems to favor a siege spam strategy while SD does not. Since this is IC's game in the end, it's their choice.

But in regards to the topic of this thread, I completely agree. It is extremely difficult at this point in time to build any good relationships with the AI. Especially for non-aggressive players. Sadly, IC never considered that everyone who would purchase this game wasn't interested in pure zerging, so they gave absolutely no way for defensive players to gain positive relationships with the AI early in the game.

Yeah your better off with locked teams. The diplomacy just doesn't work at all.

With regards to the siege ships, they are not that bad. I've had the AI come at me with a fleet of siege ships before. If your colony is A: Upgraded and B: Defended, you shouldn't have any trouble. I've only had an enemy take over one of my planets once, and that was when I got blind sided by a wormhole invasion with the rest of my fleet occupied by a pirate raid.

I'm sorry but some of you are apperently missing a few things about this game.

1. You can designate targets for your capital ships

2. Siege Fleets aren't exactly much of a bother if you know how to counter them.

If your getting ganked by siege fleets then use fleet one to attack the first ship in the fleet, while fleet two attacks the last ship, this way there they'll run out of ships before they get to your planet.

Also, use shield generators, that is why they were put into the game. While it doesn't save the population (which they SHOULD) it does reduce the damage done to the planet itself.

You should also know that bombers WREAK siege frigates, its how I've managed to survive in most of my games, usually each of my fleets consists of three carriers all bombers, with another carrier being all fighters. My bombers do a handsome job of melting siege units who come into the system, plus they respond faster than the fleet itself.

Use the waypoint system; hold down shift and designate each target for your ships so they don't scatter. Yes, that's a bit of micromanagement, but hey it works and keeps your units together.

Though I've never touched diplomacy in this game yet (I always play with teams locked) though my only gripe is that the AI loves to run from battles and seems to not know how to expand to well in some cases (it also apperently cheats on money to: in one of my days I had forced the AI down to its last colony - an asteriod. I decided to let the pirates take the win but strangely enough the AI was still able to put tens of thousands of credits into the bounty system. For two straight hours, every fiften minutes we'd have a bounty in excess of a hundred thousand. Which shouldn't be possible because the AI only ever owned twenty planets TOPS before I started my assault, where-as I own four star-systems. What's even more screwy was that after I brought my ships in, he had no mines, no crystal, no ships, yet was STILL pouring hundreds of thousands into the bounty system - someone needs to check that because its really unfair)

At leat you has a kind heart to show mercy on them unless you turn back on them again!

Yes, they are cheating, I thought they shouldn't cheat!

I think the first step is the ability to see the relationships between AI empires, once we can see that, we can at least get some kind of idea whats going on out there beyond the endless battle to hold onto our borders.

I have to agree with the piss poor diplomacy in the game. Just ADDING the ability to demand gold, metal, and crystal would improve this sad sad portion of the game. Hopefully this portion of the game will be slightly addressed in a patch or expansion. Ironclad I know the simple diplomacy worked for Starcraft, Warcraft, ect... but RTS gamers are much more advanced and seasoned now. We need diplomacy to be an option when were laying out our tactics and strategy.

Some desired improvements, while ignoring the mission based diplomacy model. I'm guessing just about everyone doesn't like it or would at least prefer something else.

Starting at neutral instead of I hate your guts. Nothing wrong with having a cease fire with everyone at the start. When you run out of neutral stuff to play with, the AI can then just start wailing on whatever is available. The only difference would be that alliances are more likely to be formed than they are now. The AI doesn't just rush over to pummel on each other already, neutral targets are easier to take.

A civ4 style relations chart showing who is allied, who's at war, and who's sitting the fence.

I'm just guessing here, but fair diplomacy. What applies for me should apply for ai sides as well. If I have to accomplish missions to gain favor with an ai, other ai also have to do the same. It feels unfair, but without solid documentation I'm not actually sure I end up in a 6v1 after killing off the other three sides in a random huge every time.

Now, the mission system...

If they must stay, a necessary suggestion.

Fair missions. 15 minutes to take out 8 tactical structures that I have to conquer three planets in another solar system to manage is just... silly. Static reward/penalty systems when you're doing absurdly difficult tasks really bites it. It's a mini-game from hell. I seriously doubt I'll ever keep an AI in the late game on a multi-star map. It's just not possible to complete every task, and as soon as you drop to 85%, they have a nasty habit of switching to enemy and attacking your unprotected flank somewhere. With maxed out diplomacy modifiers as TEC, it's probably possible, but I really don't think it can be done in a random huge at normal settings.

Getting rid of them, now this concept I like.

Real reward/penalty systems. AI is allied with another AI? If you attack one, you piss the other one off. AI at war with another AI? Attack one, make the other one happy. Penalties for conflict, rewards for shared enemies. A trade system would be nice too. We've already got artifacts. Use them. Setting up trade with an AI should be more than just a button. The ability to share or trade artifacts, obviously a diplomacy modifier would be in order. You get a jump drive relic, share it with your neighbor, don't break the cease fire, and over time, your trade relations and peaceful status improve your relations. Coming to the defense or supporting an attack should be a nice big boost too. Taking an enemy planet should be huge. You can even do the reverse, demanding too much from your ally should stress the relationship. Setting down pings for them to respond to should cost you.

The current system is hugely shallow, even keeping it there is vast room for improvement.