Good game with 2 drawbacks if you ask me

from Sins Forums
Sins is a good game and I love the scale and the battles. The interface is well done and easy to manage and fleets are easy to control and maintain. There are two areas that I think Sins could improve in after playing several games.

1. Diplomacy: The current diplomacy in Sins is very one dimensional and lacks any real control on the players part which I find annoying. The mission based system for building favor really doesn’t bother me except for when it gives me unrealistic time frames to complete them or when one ally gives me a mission to attack another ally. The AI players should have enough common sense to not ask you to attack an ally or a faction you have a cease fire with. Another problem I have with diplomacy is you can’t give your ally any missions which doesn’t make any sense to me, the interface would be more or less just like the bounty one except you could put up metal, crystal, or credits as the reward. I also think you should be able to coordinate attacks with allies and ask them to attack a faction or make peace with a faction etc. All in all I had excepted a more powerful diplomacy menu then what Sins gives the player perhaps not as intricate as Galciv II but closer than the current diplomacy system.


2. Fighters/Bombers: Fighters and bombers seem a bit under-represented on the battlefield. You can research upgrades to their weapon systems to increase damage but every faction just has one type of fighter and one type of bomber. I would have preferred to have a few different types of each maybe 3. Also fighters and bombers really don’t seem to make their presence felt in most battles and especially not large scale fleet engagements. There are two ways to fix this in my opinion either A. (not my preferred choice) increase the damage fighters / bombers can deal or B. Increase the number of fighters / bombers a carrier or capital ship can build but add a reasonable price to their construction.

Sins is one of the best games I've played in a while and would be a great one in my opinion if these two issues were resolved or at the very least the diplomacy issue.
39,091 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
with many of the cap ships, upgrades allow you to deploy a greater number of fighters and bombers at once. a level 10 advent carrier cap ship is truly a thing to behold.   :D 
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?aid=175061#1443263

Kinda what we've been saying here too :D
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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

The mission based system for building favor really doesn’t bother me except for when it gives me unrealistic time frames to complete them or when one ally gives me a mission to attack another ally. The AI players should have enough common sense to not ask you to attack an ally or a faction you have a cease fire with.



Having allies demand you attack another is not unrealistic, but everything else you mention appears to be valid.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

 

The AI players should have enough common sense to not ask you to attack an ally or a faction you have a cease fire with.

The AI doesn't know you are allied with this other faction just like you don't know who he is allied with. He just knows that he wants them taken out, preferably by you.

 

Another problem I have with diplomacy is you can’t give your ally any missions which doesn’t make any sense to me, the interface would be more or less just like the bounty one except you could put up metal, crystal, or credits as the reward. I also think you should be able to coordinate attacks with allies and ask them to attack a faction or make peace with a faction etc.

You can give AI players attack and defend missions once you have earned enough favor with them. Select one of their planets or ships and you will see the buttons to do this appear at the bottom right.

Also fighters and bombers really don’t seem to make their presence felt in most battles and especially not large scale fleet engagements

Fighters and bombers can be ruthless (particularly the drone swarms the Advent can produce), we actually feel bombers may actually be overpowered but we are waiting to see the concensus. I'm sure we'll hear more opinions on this soon.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
I don't think Bombers are very underpowered, max the research for their weapons and make 6-10 squads attack an enemy capital ship. You'll see shields and hull drop rapidly.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
The AI doesn't know you are allied with this other faction just like you don't know who he is allied with. He just knows that he wants them taken out, preferably by you.

In that case the player / AI should be able to show allies who they are allied with. You arn't going to find any alliances were each memeber only knows one other member of the alliance.

You can give AI players attack and defend missions once you have earned enough favor with them. Select one of their planets or ships and you will see the buttons to do this appear at the bottom right.

Why wouldn't this option be intergrated into the diplomacy menu? I think having it there would be more logical since that is where allies give you missions.

Fighters and bombers can be ruthless (particularly the drone swarms the Advent can produce), we actually feel bombers may actually be overpowered but we are waiting to see the concensus. I'm sure we'll hear more opinions on this soon.

I'll have to try doing some more work with fighers/bombers then maybe I've been making a mistake when using them.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

In that case the player / AI should be able to show allies who they are allied with. You arn't going to find any alliances were each memeber only knows one other member of the alliance.

We felt is was more exciting being suspicious of people. A lot of the more interesting dynamics in Sins occur as a result of this, especially in multiplayer. There is a real psychological element.

Why wouldn't this option be intergrated into the diplomacy menu? I think having it there would be more logical since that is where allies give you missions.

Unfortunately, we felt it was too difficult to pick planets for targeting from the diplomacy window.

Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
I haven't tried a lot of diplomacy so maybe I'll like it more when I try it out more, but presently, I'm very underwhelmed by it. Doing inane tasks to make a number go up, a number that means they'll be more likely to accept tasks from me. Hm. Might be better when I'm taking advantage of it instead of the other way around.

Didn't get around to it last game though, I was too busy trying to deal with 4 siege frigates that were marching through my empire destroying all my planets. There was nothing I could do to stop them. Even once I caught up with them with my front-line combat capital ship and five or six frigates, they were able to get away no problem.

If I find a mod that either makes ships 1/3rd as durable (especially siege ships!), or a mod that creates a mandatory wait for warp engines to recharge, I might seriously try this game out again. Right now I'm tempted to try it ore just because I put down 40$ on it, not because it's fun.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

2. Fighters/Bombers: Fighters and bombers seem a bit under-represented on the battlefield. You can research upgrades to their weapon systems to increase damage but every faction just has one type of fighter and one type of bomber. I would have preferred to have a few different types of each maybe 3. Also fighters and bombers really don’t seem to make their presence felt in most battles and especially not large scale fleet engagements. There are two ways to fix this in my opinion either A. (not my preferred choice) increase the damage fighters / bombers can deal or B. Increase the number of fighters / bombers a carrier or capital ship can build but add a reasonable price to their construction.



Ok... first off, you use different type of fighters for different roles. Look at the US military... they are trying to streamline their inventory with the f35b. A single fighter aircraft to fit all roles. That makes the need to have 3 types of fighters obsolete, and it is the way ANY military would want it.

The larger ships have the more important task of planetary defense and attack while fighters defend against bombers... Why would you need 3 types of fighters? Cool factor?

Not game breaking in my opinion. Guess you will need to get to work on moding the game then eh?
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
bombers win hardcore, they're great for taking out escaping ships, and when you have 10-11 drone frigates + 2-3 cap that makes for from 13 to... ummm.. alot... of bombers (times ten, so 130+) all hitting a single target. Trust me, the target dies. quickly.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Ok... first off, you use different type of fighters for different roles. Look at the US military... they are trying to streamline their inventory with the f35b. A single fighter aircraft to fit all roles. That makes the need to have 3 types of fighters obsolete, and it is the way ANY military would want it.

The larger ships have the more important task of planetary defense and attack while fighters defend against bombers... Why would you need 3 types of fighters? Cool factor?

Not game breaking in my opinion. Guess you will need to get to work on moding the game then eh?


Well as I said in a later post I’m going back and reevaluating my statement on fighters and bombers. As for the F-35 it can be configured for a variety of roles which isn’t a bad thing but jacks of all trades are never going to be as effective in any given role as a specialist. The F- 35 is a great fighter for sure but it isn’t going to replace every US fighter especially not the F-22 or F-18 probably not even the newer F-15s. Having different types of fighters and bombers just seems to give the player better options in my opinion but I’m not going to make a big deal about it. Sure I would like to have 3 choices for each but then again I’d like a lot of things.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
I also agree that bombers and fighters don't really seem effective yet. I'll withhold my ranting for a few more days.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top


1. Diplomacy: The current diplomacy in Sins is very one dimensional and lacks any real control on the players part which I find annoying. The mission based system for building favor really doesn’t bother me except for when it gives me unrealistic time frames to complete them or when one ally gives me a mission to attack another ally. The AI players should have enough common sense to not ask you to attack an ally or a faction you have a cease fire with. Another problem I have with diplomacy is you can’t give your ally any missions which doesn’t make any sense to me, the interface would be more or less just like the bounty one except you could put up metal, crystal, or credits as the reward. I also think you should be able to coordinate attacks with allies and ask them to attack a faction or make peace with a faction etc. All in all I had excepted a more powerful diplomacy menu then what Sins gives the player perhaps not as intricate as Galciv II but closer than the current diplomacy system.


While I definitely agree that the diplomacy system needs working over (three quick fixes are partial rewards for partially completing the mission before the timer runs out, the ability to gain "happiness" by giving resources even if they aren't asked for, and tweaking the probability of missions so they're more doable), there are some things your missing. You can, for example, ask an AI with whom you've developed a rapport of some kind to defend / attack various targets -- a form of reverse missions. That said, trying to get the AI to team up with you at a higher level isn't really something that'd be easy.

2. Fighters/Bombers: Fighters and bombers seem a bit under-represented on the battlefield. You can research upgrades to their weapon systems to increase damage but every faction just has one type of fighter and one type of bomber. I would have preferred to have a few different types of each maybe 3. Also fighters and bombers really don’t seem to make their presence felt in most battles and especially not large scale fleet engagements. There are two ways to fix this in my opinion either A. (not my preferred choice) increase the damage fighters / bombers can deal or B. Increase the number of fighters / bombers a carrier or capital ship can build but add a reasonable price to their construction.


Fighters / bombers are powerful units, properly used.

Part of using them properly is using them in numbers. (Which is where the OP comes in -- what a bomber swarm of 20-30 squadrons tear through anything before flak can kill them)
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
Well, I can't say much for the Diplomacy option on Sins haven't used it much myself. My personal Diplomacy begins and ends at the forward most gun on a Kol. But I have noticed the xeno's and deviants will often send me a mission to help wipe out an enemy or send them some of the glorious TEC minerals which I decline. I have yet have them gravel enough to throw a cease fire at me, perhaps these xeno's and deviants know how to die with honor perhaps not.

As for the bombers it has been my personal displeasure of having to rebuild a five cap ship and about 70+ frigate and cruiser fleet because I went against some deviant (Advent) cap carriers who had some nasty bombers. Of course in the heroic manner of TEC I built five carriers for their every one. On round two it was my bombers mopping up space not theirs. So in the end it is how you use them and how many you have the more you have the better they are.
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
I haven't got into diplomacy yet so can't really comment.

It's true it would be nice to have more variety of all kinds of ships, however, I think the current stategic options are pretty flexible (with research, even daunting).

Early game, fighters and bombers are fairly weak. That's why I stoped researching the cruiser carrier until I knew I could research fighters/bombers more.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
totally agree with the topic creator here. these are great ideas for mods/patch.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top


1. Diplomacy: The current diplomacy in Sins is very one dimensional and lacks any real control on the players part which I find annoying. The mission based system for building favor really doesn’t bother me except for when it gives me unrealistic time frames to complete them or when one ally gives me a mission to attack another ally. The AI players should have enough common sense to not ask you to attack an ally or a faction you have a cease fire with. Another problem I have with diplomacy is you can’t give your ally any missions which doesn’t make any sense to me, the interface would be more or less just like the bounty one except you could put up metal, crystal, or credits as the reward. I also think you should be able to coordinate attacks with allies and ask them to attack a faction or make peace with a faction etc. All in all I had excepted a more powerful diplomacy menu then what Sins gives the player perhaps not as intricate as Galciv II but closer than the current diplomacy system.


While I definitely agree that the diplomacy system needs working over (three quick fixes are partial rewards for partially completing the mission before the timer runs out, the ability to gain "happiness" by giving resources even if they aren't asked for, and tweaking the probability of missions so they're more doable), there are some things your missing. You can, for example, ask an AI with whom you've developed a rapport of some kind to defend / attack various targets -- a form of reverse missions. That said, trying to get the AI to team up with you at a higher level isn't really something that'd be easy.

2. Fighters/Bombers: Fighters and bombers seem a bit under-represented on the battlefield. You can research upgrades to their weapon systems to increase damage but every faction just has one type of fighter and one type of bomber. I would have preferred to have a few different types of each maybe 3. Also fighters and bombers really don’t seem to make their presence felt in most battles and especially not large scale fleet engagements. There are two ways to fix this in my opinion either A. (not my preferred choice) increase the damage fighters / bombers can deal or B. Increase the number of fighters / bombers a carrier or capital ship can build but add a reasonable price to their construction.


Fighters / bombers are powerful units, properly used.

Part of using them properly is using them in numbers. (Which is where the OP comes in -- what a bomber swarm of 20-30 squadrons tear through anything before flak can kill them)


thanks for these tips. :)

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Lol fighters and bombers are quite potent they always form the backbone of my fleet and they never disapoint me.