Major Stress Major Stress

[MOD WIP] Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 (updated 01/10/09)

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[MOD WIP] Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 (updated 01/10/09)

from Sins Forums

Featured (by a small mention) in the October edition of PC Gamer magazine

Candidate for Mod Database's 2008 Mod of the Year

This is the OLD "Work in Progress" thread for the Star Trek: Sacrifice of Angels 2 mod.

The new WIP topic is here https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/342747

The "Release" topic can be found here https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/322473


The mod is intended to be a hommage, and tribute to the original Sacrifice of Angels mod for Homeworld. It will use many of the same models, and effects created for that mod by the Trekmods team. Like the original SoA mod SoA2 is set during the Dominion War era of Star Trek. Using both canon, and non-canon units to recreate those battles with Sins "empire building" mechanic added. Like in SoA you can fight battles in SoA2 using hundreds of starships. Sometimes thousands if your computer can handle it ;)

While the mod was not intended as a "Total Conversion". That is exactly what it is winding up being. There is much about the Sins engine, and mechanics that we still need to learn. There are some hard coded stumbling blocks we have to overcome.

The factions will be the Federation, Klingons, Romulan, and the Dominion (with Breen, and Cardassian ally units). The main factions seen in the Dominion War. With a "Surprise" as the Pirate faction.

Factions like the Borg "may" be added in the future. LokiGodofMischief is working on a very good 3rd party Borg add on for SoA 2. It is very possible his add on may be merged with SoA 2 at a much later time.

The current version of SoA 2 is  0.03b   "The Second Dominion War". Look for it here  https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/322473

0.03b only works with Sins versions 1.1, 1.11, and 1.12.

All previous versions of SoA 2 are obsolete, and will not be supported, or hosted anymore. All older version downloads will be removed.

We will NOT port SoA 2 over to Entrenchment until after Entrenchment is out of beta, and released. Along with proper forge tool updates.

I am working on the models mostly ALONE so it may take a while for any new ship model updates.

Darkshimmer is the Balancing guru, Code monkey, and Master at arms. We do have other contributers, and the best 3rd party work from the finest artists in the trek mod community to help make SoA 2 the best it can be.

Status of Demo 0.04  "The actors are in place" 

Will update when i have news.

General Changes:

Manshooters Volumetric Explosions mod will be included as of 0.03a

May include Sins Plus (planets), but ill need to see how much that mod needs changing to incorporate into SoA 2.

SoA 2 0.03 and above is now patch 1.1, and better compatable. Sins patches 1.11, and 1.12 only address balancing, and online exploits, and have no effect on the mod.

Ships will have some anti stike craft weaponry.

Ships are still being added and balanced accordingly.

More re-balancing so that one faction is not overpowered over the other.

The Federation:

Faction is complete. Only structures left

The Klingon Empire

Faction is complete. Only structures left.

The Romulan Star Empire:

Faction is complete. Only structures left

The Dominion:

Faction is complete. Still needs balancing work.

Pirates:

They were going to be the Borg, but that idea failed. So we are looking into Random multirace ship spawns.

Planetary Defenders

Basically "Ships of the week" like the Maquis, Sona, Ferrengi, Tammarian battle cruisers and the like.

Balancing:  Darkshimmer has the Federation, Romulan, and Klingon Empire, and Unified Dominion balanced.

Gameplay: We now have a working Cloaking Device! Check the ModDB page for the WIP video. Cloaking will not be fully implemented in the mod until version 0.04

Art: We are working on an LCARS style UI, adding proper icons, and pictures for all of the new units. The UI is going to take a while to do, because of all of the redundancy of the Sins UI. SoA 2 uses 2 sets of UI textures. Instead of the standard 4 textures for buttons, and 2 textures for icons. SoA 2 uses 8 textures for buttons, and 4 textures for icons which IMO is a major waste of resources, because sins loads all these textures at startup. Unfortunetly i dont see any other way to do it. What is kind of cool is that we dont have to use the same HUD for each faction. It is possible to have unique HUDs, but again the perfomance hit, because of the extra drain on resources could be big, and not worth it.

In Planning: (No promises, or guarentees, but we will try to add these if possible.)

Troop Transport effects.

Planetary invasion animations

Tractor beams. (need a code monkey for this)

Whatever else we can think of and are capable of doing.

Future Updates:

SoA 2 0.04 is now in planning, and will be focused primarily on Proper research trees, Ability's, and adding proper Structures. More than likely demo 0.04 will be the last demo. After that then the full mod should be ready.

SoA 2 0.05 will be the final spit, and polish of the mod. It will focus mainly on re-balancing if needed. Also final artwork changes will be made here. Which will include some ship model re-builds, and re-texturing.

The Full SoA 2 1.0 mod will be released "When it is Finished". We are doing this on our own free time. We aren't getting paid to do this. We have no set schedule. We have no time limit. I want this one to be good. So it wont go online until we feel it is ready.

*NOTE: Much about Sins as we are all now realizing is hardcoded. SoA 2 is going to be far from a perfect "trek" mod due to these hardcoded issues. However we will try to do the best we can with workarounds, and compromises to get it as close as possible. Like i said some things wont be perfect. Some things cannot be done at all. Enjoy the mod for what it is, and try not to be too "nit picky".

SoA2 will be hosted on Mod Database once it is ready http://www.moddb.com/mods/star-trek-sacrifice-of-angels-2

This main header will be updated when i have news to post.





modding
4,105,662 views 1,754 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top
Which Klingon, Dominion, and Cardassian ships are you using? I'm sure we can help you track down some options to fill the remaining slots.
Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top

Which Klingon, Dominion, and Cardassian ships are you using? I'm sure we can help you track down some options to fill the remaining slots.


All of them.

The mod has a name Sacrifice of Angels 2: Apocalypse Rising

"In times of war, the law falls silent." Fits the theme of the dominion war and the founders turning allies against each other perfectly.
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top
Is there any possibility of re-aranging the "porpose" of a given ship. Right now in sins its just alittle anoying to me that each faction as a missle ship, a planet bombarder, a light frigate, a anti-fighter, a command ship, a repair ship... blah blah ext. ext. and so forth. While i TOTALLY understand why they did it, cause balancing would have really sucked (though thats why we pay them), i also understand that it would be really intense to have to balance a mod if we messed up the standard balancing... but it would make for a beter game if done right.

I think especially for the star trek universe were ships are so multi-pourpose, it would be cool to see the lines between the standard classes blured a little bit. what do you guys think?
Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top
Roles, and ability's for individual ships will be determined later. If we chose a particular ship as a "siege" ship it doesnt necessarily mean it "will" be a siege ship. Right now we are just using the sins roles as a guide and changing as needed.
Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
Instead of siege shooting missles, change the models and descriptions around and you can have troop transports shooting landing pods

This is more in line with the Startrek Canon .

ST:Birth of the federation had troop transports and I remember a Ds9 episode with Klingon Troop Transports
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top
@Major Stress....

May the force be with you! :HOT:
Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top
One thing i have learned over the years is every trek fan has their own interpretation of what "canon" is. Their own image of what Star Trek "should" be.

I have my own image, and it is going in the mod, but in a way that enhances the game where Trek "canon" just wont fit due to the mechanics of Sins. We did this in Homeworld SoA. We wound up inventing non-canon ships to fit a certain hardcoded roles in the game to make the mod work, and still be believable as a trek mod. Any who played Homeworld knows what i am talking about. We caught much flak over it, and there was much in house arguing over these changes, but in the long run the changes enhanced the mod instead of bursting some fanboy's vision of trek. So in my opinion it was worth it.

Some things we will have to "make up" due to Sins game mechanics. There wont be a choice. However Sins is much more forgiving as far as hardcoding than Homeworld was.

Planet bombing... It is part of sins, but not Star Trek. In Sins you need to bomb worlds to take them over quickly. You could wait for culture to do it, but that may take way too long. So how would you make believable Star Trek planet sieges? Simple, You improvise.

Example: The Romulans will use plasma torpedoes to bomb planets. The very same plasma torpedoes used in TOS balance of terror, but with a different effect. No 60's puff of smoke. The idea i had all along was the torpedo was useless vs moving starships as balance of terror proved, but very effective vs stationary targets (like a planets and asteroids). It is a "siege" type weapon meant to do massive destruction. Rommies will still use their typical TNG shipboard weapons arsenal. The plasma torpedo bombing is an example of "semi-canon" changes i am planning strictly for Sins gameplay purposes where canon doesnt fit. Besides if you were a rommie, and had plasmas on board i have no doubt you would USE em :D

Troop Transports, merchant ships, and shuttles may be used to 'colonize' depending on the faction. The method each faction colonizes is still in the planning stage.

Right now my crews primary focus is getting the 6 factions lineups in game and working. Work has already started on model importing.
Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top
Although strictly not a Starfleet/Federation tactic, it's been said that the photon torpedoes used on Starfleet ships are easily capable of destroying an entire city, and I imagine it's capable of devastating an entire planet if given enough time or if configured for a higher yield than conventional photons. Simply make whatever ship/ships capable of orbital bombardment be outfitted with "high yield photons" and it would look canon enough eventhough Starfleet orbital bombardment is not canon :P
Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
i was debating whether on getting this game. this totally puts it over the top, and the morning it drops, i'll be scratching the glass doors at circuit city.

i am really lookin' forward to this mod.

i'm a multimedia artist (3d, video, flash, photoshop), if you want to enlist some help, give me a holler.

Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top
Can you model, and texture (both create, and apply to the model)? If so lets talk.

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but dont buy the game just to play this mod.. least not just yet ;)

We are a long way from anything close to a release. We havent imported any ships yet. Though we have models we are prepping for import. We can use Code Herders model importer for now. However much of the mod will depend on the release of the Forge Tools.






Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
BTW, how are you planning on handling fighters? Either you scrap out fighter-based units (carriers and flaks!) or you need to create fighters.

Runabouts / shuttles could work for that, if you need an idea. Make shuttles "basic"... and the federation can research and then deploy runabouts just to be nasty :D (I want research based fighters to work soooo bad... if only for the fun ideas it will give modders).
Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top
I could be wrong but I do not expect any tool for at least a couple months (60 - 90 days) if we are that lucky. This is so since IC has been very vague on a release date (to the best of my knowledge). I think they will likely wait to gage initial sales as well as community impact and development.
Reply #38 from Sins Forums Top

I could be wrong but I do not expect any tool for at least a couple months (60 - 90 days) if we are that lucky. This is so since IC has been very vague on a release date (to the best of my knowledge). I think they will likely wait to gage initial sales as well as community impact and development.


Uh, I think they said the tools would be available on release.
Reply #39 from Sins Forums Top
That would be stellar to be sure. I thought it was a "maybe" for release or "not sure".
Reply #40 from Sins Forums Top
Fighters have never been a big part of the Trek universe. Pretty much the only times they've ever used small craft in a combat situation was in the first battle with the Jem'Hadar where the Odyssey was destroyed, and in the episode from which this mod draws its name, with the Peregrine fighters that were sent in to harass the Cardassian ships in an attempt to get them to break formation. Honestly, I don't like'em much. As Major Stress has said, everyone has their own idea of canon. In mine, phasers are too accurate for small, lightly shielded craft to be viable.

And, as I said in the other thread, I think there are probably ways to mod the culture system to make it a practical means of conquest for the Federation. That's how they grow in the Trek universe - leading by example, and converting planets to their side through peaceful means. As far as we know, of all the wars they've been involved in - Klingon, Cardassian, Dominion, (the Romulan War was just Earth vs Romulus) they have never been the aggressors, and have never conquered territory. And while they do take systems by force in times of war, we've never seen them bombard anybody from orbit. Besides, it'd be cool to have to play differently as the Federation - I'm a big fan of asymmetry in RTS games, though I DO recognize that it's harder to pull off.
Reply #41 from Sins Forums Top
Fighters are a canon part of the Dominion War, and they will be in the mod. Feds will have the Perigrene (spelling). Other factions will have their own fighter. Sins fighters are more of an annoyance than anything. Same is true with trek fighters. Unlike sins all ships will be able to target trek fighters. So they will be good for tying up weapons fire. They will also be capable of doing "some" damage. The Fed fighters did manage to damage a few cardies in that battle, but were swatted out of the sky just as quickly.

While i agree feds shouldnt go around nuking planets from orbit on a whim. It is part of the game mechanic, and you wont get very far if you dont. As a joke i was thinking of feds bombing with propaganda pamphlets, but thats just outright silly. We may not have a choice but to make it so feds nuke worlds. A fed player can try to take over with culture 1st, and use the nuking as absolute last resort.

BTW the episode where fighters were seen was Sacrifice of Angels. You can hear fighters battle chatter in Favor the Bold, and Tears of the Prophets. Odyssey was the 1st (disastrous) contact with the jem'hadar. They used runabouts and a galaxy in that ep.
Reply #42 from Sins Forums Top
Can't you simply change the missile model and fx to instead appear like a Federation shuttlecraft or runabout and then explain it as the Federation using troops to clear enemy occupations from the planet's surface (phasers set to stun, of course)?

Alternatively, Sins has a mechanic whereas capital ships slow the spread of enemy culture at a planet they're at, so maybe it would be possible code-wise to enable Federation culture spread to be bolstered by having Federation capital ships at an enemy colony, thus allowing conquer via culture if you remained there long enough.

This is all supposition until it's known exactly what can be modified and to what extent.
Reply #43 from Sins Forums Top
The game is gold now. So on feb 4th we will be doing some reverse engineering to find out exactly what we can, and cant do. Much will depend on what the forge tools can do. For what we cant do thats what 3rd party tools are for ;)

For the time being i am not worrying about any of the 4x aspects of the mod until we get the RTS aspect working (ships, and FX imported, working, scripted, and balanced).

The capitol culture spread buff is already in game.

Reply #44 from Stardock Forums Top
I was talking with Tom this evening and then started feeling all nostalgic and googled my way into this. As far as I'm concerned, all of my work is public domain at this point, as long as it gets credited (not that I'd ever check). Tom sounds pretty enthused as well, so I'm sure he'd be okay with it. Stress, you should try to get a hold of him.

I can still be found on MSN with the old email address, although I don't actually check that email anymore.
Reply #45 from Stardock Forums Top
Hey Stress, Howie just linked me to this. Get in touch with me over IM if you can (some addresses in my profile here.) I'd love to at least keep up with this and maybe contribute some designs or something if needed. Anything I've already done is of course free for you to use.

Hope to hear from you. Good Trek strategy has been a dry well for a while now so I'd love to help get this in gear in some small way, at least.
Reply #46 from Sins Forums Top

Fighters have never been a big part of the Trek universe. Pretty much the only times they've ever used small craft in a combat situation was in the first battle with the Jem'Hadar where the Odyssey was destroyed, and in the episode from which this mod draws its name, with the Peregrine fighters that were sent in to harass the Cardassian ships in an attempt to get them to break formation. Honestly, I don't like'em much. As Major Stress has said, everyone has their own idea of canon. In mine, phasers are too accurate for small, lightly shielded craft to be viable.


Obviously you've never played this:
http://ps2.ign.com/objects/016/016412.html
Reply #47 from Sins Forums Top
THOMAS!! :D Im still on MSN. Same addy. I got a hold of Vorlon, and he is gonna help out some. ONV sends best wishes. Howie you are more than welcome to help if you want to. Of course all credit will go where its due. Damn this is most of the old SoA crew. :D

Trek has been pretty bleak the last 7 years. I think its time for the "true power" to do something about that ;)
Reply #48 from Sins Forums Top
Hey man, I don't see you online anymore on MSN... my SN there is tmarrone (at) hotmail (dot) com. Send me a message when you're on and we'll shoot the shit.
Reply #49 from Sins Forums Top
Dasher here. Good to see you, Stress, you too Tom! I've been hearing good things about this game, and hey, maybe if the dev support for modders is good, I'll look into it.

For those of you who don't know me, I was a TrekMods team member and did most of the scripting and balancing for the Sacrifice of Angels mod for Homeworld, and also wrote the Foundation system for Bridge Commander which nearly everything that adds to the scripting of that game is based upon. I like a good opportunity to tease great new gaming experiences out of things. I'll be watching with interest.

I'm not online with ICQ as much as I used to be but I'll get my email out to you all.
Reply #50 from Sins Forums Top
OMG its Elvis! Good to see you too Dasher!

Dev support is great for this game. Just read thru the boards. The devs listen to our input, and have added many of our suggestions. The game mods like HW1 without the ridiculous hardcode restrictions. There are some there but not near like in HW1. Im sure you can see what it is and squeeze it out ;)

I usually dont hang out much on msn myself but that will change now.

We can sure use your talents once again. I got you on MSN, but you dont go on there that often. Now i am feeling all nostalgic :D