My Greatest Comeback Win Ever!

An unexpected AAR

Wow. I just finished a game that really blew my mind, and I decided I wanted to write up what happened so that I could share the story.

I'm still test playing the new TA beta, which does not allow metaverse games. I've played a fair number of games at this point and it has allowed me to really play around with some new strategies.

I decided I wanted to play a game that really focused on the new fleet enhancement modules (specifically the Tulon module). I hadn't used it before... but the tech description says it adds +20% to fleet weapons bonus. I didn't know if this ability stacked, and usually I've been using modules that add +25% while in my own influence. I find I spend most of the game with my combat ships in my own influence, and I liked the extra 5%.

What I didn't know was did that 20% bonus stack? That is, if I had 5 mediums fleeted each with a Tulon Weapon module would I get a +100% across the fleet?

Seeing as I knew I was going to be focusing on kicking out some huge damage numbers I decided to play the game as the Arceans. I set all of the setting to "random" except for galaxy size which I set to Huge. Now normally I play on smaller galaxies, but I wanted to be sure that an AI or two managed to develop good militaries so that I could have something that wasn't a straw man to go knock down... I wanted a real military test. I wasn't planning on finishing this game, just getting in, researching the modules, logistics, weapons and medium hulls, fighting a few wars to see how it worked out, and quit.

For bonuses I selected ones that went with my strategy. I took +20% weapons and the War party, I took the +range ability (figured it would help on a big map), I took luck, creativity, +10% morale, and +20% hull hp. I wanted my mediums to be able to stick around.

I set my game to 9 random opponents and selected masochistic for the difficulty level. While I play most of my metaverse "official" games at suicidal because it gets me the highest score, I often don't have the most fun at suicidal. Suicidal is so difficult that it leaves you very few play styles with which to succeed. You need to worry more about optimal strategy at all times. As low as Maso the enemy bonuses are significantly worse so you can play around with sub-optimal strategies and get a feel for their strengths and weaknesses. I often like to play around with sub-optimal strategies... so when playing sandbox games I often play at the much-less-intense maso or obscene. This was going to be a casual in and out game where I wasn't pushing myself hard, but I would be able to test exactly what I thought of the fleet modules in a laid-back setting. I'd get a feel for their effectiveness and quit.

This was NOT going to be an AAR game (hence no screenshots, sorry).

Year 1 - Discovery
Well, I really got a poor start. I ended up on the edge of the map near but not in a corner. I had a military resource right next to my home system. Arcea had only two bonus tiles on her, a +100% morale tile and a +100% research tile. I had wanted to play Arcea as an industrial sector with a starforge and man/econ capital... I like using an all factory strategy on larger maps. But with those planetary bonuses I decided to make Arcea a research capital.

My plan was to buy Arcea full of labs and research pretty far into the trees quickly on an all labs strategy while my colonizers found a good high PQ world. Then, I would land on that world, and fill THAT world with factories and my stellar forge. Then I would switch over to all factories and essentially abandon Arcea for the rest of the game... building over the labs with stock markets.

But my plan didn't work. I decided to ignore Hammer II and sent my initial colonizer out to find a second juicy world. I put my survey vessel and miner on auto, and got to work.

Early game I had fun picking my way through the new Arcean tech tree. I got sensors and the speed bonuses to counteract my racial penalties. I lease bought a few more survey ships. I also researched up the labs line including advanced computing and lease bought the tech capital. I went a ways down the diplo line to get trade and lease an econ capital... and then I started in on advanced govs.

But, well, early game wasn't going well. My single colonizer was slow, and kept moving to systems with 5 or 4 planets and none habitable. I finally started to run into habitable worlds, but they were already colonized by the Drengin. Finding no worlds was problem #1. Finding no anomalies was problem #2. Now I had researched sensors and lease bought several survey ships early, but apparantly this was a game with rare anomalies. I couldn't tell off the bat because I seem to recall thinking that on larger maps anomalies are spaced out more than on smaller maps. I got really nothing from my three research ships, and soon they head out in the blackness to try and find the rare stragglers.

Rare habitable planets and rare anomalies. Unexpected.

Year 2 - The Darkness
Year 2 began with an ominous sign. Hammer II was colonized by a Drengin colony ship. See, I had never had the funds to build a second one. I had gained no anomaly boosts, and the tech rate, whatever it was, was slow enough that it was a struggle to fund that research I was doing. My colonizer had never found my "second world" on which I was going to put my stellar forge, so that still wasn't built, and I had no manufacturing buildings.

Not only did I only have one world, I was sinking into the red fast. My leases only totaled 166 bc per month, but that was well more than my small population on Arcea could support through taxes. I had cash coming in from nowhere, and my exploration started to show I was huddled between two fairly influential empires, the Drengin and the Terrans. My gamble on survey ships had backfired badly, as had my gamble to run into the darkness looking for better worlds. And an all labs strategy was already going to be tough on this map size.

I was being beaten by the environment, and there wasn't even a military in the galaxy yet. Fortunately my survey ships, those useless survey ships, had seemingly struck off deep into the darkness in random directions, and had managed contact with half a dozen civs. I met the Terrans, Thalans, Iconians, Drengin, Korx and Paulos. I decided my only hope for getting money was to trade for it.

Now I had spent some time in the diplo line, but I hadn't even got alliances yet. Still on Maso the game is much easier so I was hoping I could do alright in the trade screen. And that is about what I did. I managed to trade for some money, 3 research treaties, a few low level weapons, and some low level infrastructure (xeno engineering, xeno economics, xeno entertainment).

This was a decent haul for how few of my techs I was willing to trade. But it wasn't close to enough. My colonizer finally found a world that wasn't already taken... a PQ 12 world! Sadly it was Heavy Gravity, and with no money I couldn't sniff extreme colonization. Well, I had nothing better for my far-flung colonists to do, so I sat them next to my hope for their future world. And I sat and hoped. My money sank. It sank far and fast. I ended year 2 with less than -5000bc, with my empire having produced nothing for most of the year.

Year 3 - A Bright Idea
While I couldn't fund my research, I wasn't without hope. I had managed a +45% creativity bonus and I did have those three research treaties coming in. Still, my position was mostly hopeless. I had one world while most AIs had somewhere between 5 and 20 worlds. The Drengin were one of the most powerful civs, and they were so right next door they had Hammer II. Trade was clearly not going to make me enough money to even be able to operate my empire for one turn. I was never going to see the elysium fields of -499bc to try and do something. This was supposed to be a casual, easy game and I was losing badly.

I thought about just restarting. I saved and quit the game, mentally drained and frustrated. For some reason several days later I decided to re-load my hopeless situation. Given some time I thought about what I could possibly do. It was only a Maso game, the AI didn't have that many bonuses. If I'm as good as I like to think I am (ha ha) I should be able to fight out of this. At the very least I should make the AI actually invade and kill me. I did have that +soldiering bonus after all... I shifted gears from thinking of this as a casual game to more of a serious game. Come at it like I'm in a suicidal death match! Game on!

Great bravado, but my treasury continued to sink down to -8000 bc. However, all was not lost... thanks mostly to creativity. See, while I could never research anything the new creativity gives you a chance to just finish a tech... and a +45% means this procs fairly often. I started by researching Heavy Gravity colonization, hoping that a moment of inspiration amoung my scientists could let me colonize my second world. And voila! 168 turns of research were finished in just 12! I plopped my colonists down and had a second world.

Now, I knew I needed money, but i couldn't afford to build any buildings, so economy buildings were out. Instead I decided to research higher governments. While my people were unhappy our empire had been in debt so long, I had kept their tax levels low so that they were fairly happy anyway because there was no point in sacrificing happiness for a few extra bc when I was losing hundreds a turn. Advanced governments were supportable with my happy people, and would let me get more from my tax rate. I creatively researched up through Federations (Federations was finished more than 300! turns ahead of schedule thanks to creativity... but remember my empire is producing nothing. Those 300 turns was based on research treaties) and changed to the top gov form. Doing this almost stopped the bleeding.

I then started to research down the planetary invasion line. All of a sudden several things happened in quick succession to make the game more interesting:
1) I got really lucky on my creativity and got down to tidal disruption in just a few turns
2) I decided to trade away my Heavy Grav techs for cash, and managed with my diplo bonuses to pick up basic Barren colonization. Selling Barren colonization, Heavy Gravity colonization and Advanced Heavy Gravity colonization to 12 different civs netted me almost 11k! I'm in the green!
3) Some of those first turn leases actually started to expire, dropping my lease expense. The shame of it all.
4) The Drengin declared war on me...

What what what? Ok, that last one was a worry. Almost as soon as I could run my empire again and I'm being attacked. And the Drengin had by far the strongest military in the game... I don't have a single starship. Had I fought my way out of debt only to be destroyed?

Year 4 - An Alliance
I should backtrack slightly. Right BEFORE the Drengin declared war I had culture flipped Hammer II back to me, which had been hurting relations. See, I had a large, happy populations and all those advanced governments... and the people on Hammer II just thought I was more advanced culturally... and they didn't want to work in the slave pits. Not that I could blame them. So I actually have 3 worlds now. Sadly my high PQ world has no buildings save two farms, and it is three sectors away!

But I wasn't going to go down without a fight! I switched my funding from 100% research to 100% military... even though all I had were base colonies and no factories. I stayed researching the invasion line for a bit, before going for better hulls. I tech traded up a storm to get some basic weapons (Pulse cannons anyone?)... and I started to build freighters.

Now I know that last bit probably doesn't make sense... but I had a plan. The Drengin ships were slower than my ships at 4 speed vs. 7 speed on my freighters. The Terran Alliance was friendly and also next door. My plan was to build freighters and send them to Terran space. With luck the Drengin war machine would give chase out of its influence. IF I won the war and my "kiting" freighters survived, I could establish trade routes later. But for now they just existed to be fast distractions that flew away from my worlds. Plus all those war ships in Terran space would strain relations, and I knew the two were neighbors.

Several Drengin transports showed up at Arcea... and I was happy to have all those soldering bonuses. 3000 crack Drengin assault troops were repelled over several months time, but Arcea still took heavy losses, dropping from 16billion people down to just over 7 billion.

Worse, the Terrans, my OTHER neighbor also decided I was weakly looking, and demanded a large bribe (2600 bc with only 800 in my treasury). What could I do? I paid them ;)

Yes, the game lets you pay any bribe, I just went deep into the red again. But when you pay a bribe your relationship improves greatly. This time I gambled and won. I paid the bribe hoping to improve relations. Then ON THE SAME TURN I landed all of my freighters that had been kiting on Terran worlds. The resulting relations boost got me to "Close" (whew) - and I traded everything including the farm (well, xeno farming) to get an alliance as soon as I could. And it worked! Yaaay! I have a big brother.

Year 5 - A Foothold

But the alliance came after the war declaration, so the Terrans were still watching passively by as more Drengin troop transports approached my worlds. I traded with all the other civs for some more cash and a few more weapons and waited for the Terran trade fatigue to wear (thank goodness super diplomat). When I could finally trade again I paid the Terrans to declare war on the Drengin (and they were itching for a fight, it only cost me 18 bc!!!!!). I then also lease bought a few tiny fighters with some guns.

I know, I should have learned my lesson about leasing from the first TWO years of this game, right? But I needed to slow down the waves of Drengin transports... they were unescorted but packed 32 beam attack each, so unarmed ships couldn't cut it.

Fortunately the Drengin weren't expecting me to have ships, and with only 1HP the cargo hulls were easy pickings for my Super Warrior. With three tiny ships (3 attack each) I was able to wipe out 6 Drengin Transports in 1 turn (and they had a combined 192 attack!). This bought me some more time while the Terran war machine started to grind against the Drengin war machine.

Fortunately the Drengin force was out of position. Much of it was deep in Terran territory still chasing my few surviving freighters. They were easily surrounded and destroyed by the Terran military. Then the Terrans launched their attack, and looking I could tell the Drengin couldn't fight them.

Of course, I couldn't fight anyone either. But the Drengin's attention was now held by a real threat. I switched from building freighters to building troop transports, and on a few occasions rush bought the last few turns (no lease buying here, I just spent any excess cash I happened to have). I built half a dozen troop transports (which were fast) and flew them out to huddle near the Terran fleets rampaging through Drengin space.

The ultimate leech, as the Terran military destroyed defenders of a world my transports would swoop in and take it. Remember, I had researched all the planetary invasion techs, and my soldiers had a great 112 soldiering level. With the tag team of Terran combat ships to take care of defenders and my Arcean transports to finish off worlds not only did the Drengin start to fall quickly, but I tripled my world total.

Of course, as I started to get more worlds my expenses increased... and I needed to adjust again. I switched from military building to social building to start to build on all my new worlds (many were empty because there were so many improvements I couldn't use, and I've put no money to social for the FIRST five years of the game ;) ). I ran out of money to rush buy transports so just decided to consolidate what I had taken. The Terrans, while slow about invading ended up taking several more Drengin worlds.

But I had Kora. And it was only a matter of time before Kona culture flipped to me. And when it finally did, it also happened to be the last Drengin world, so I got credit for conquering them. Not bad when I had only 3 tiny hull ships to my entire army.

Year 6 - An Aggressive Partnership

But I finally, FINALLY had something to work with. I filled my planets with farms, banks and factories and went to an all industry, research focused strategy. I switched my sliders to 1/99/0 and started to kick out transports.

See, that was all I needed. I continually traded with the Terrans, who seeing me as their weak little brother were fairly happy to continually trade me military tech (but not miniturization or bigger hulls, grrr. That's what I really wanted!). And I was too happy to continually bribe them to fight war after war.

See, while my corner of the galaxy had been tense the rest of the universe had its own problems. The Korx had conquered the Iconians, and there were several races with only a half dozen worlds engaged in multiple wars, barely hanging on. One by one I bribed the Terrans to declare war on the civ near my borders, then I had my transports sulk behind their increasingly large and impressive fleets, and then I would grab a few more worlds. The Terrans usually finished the wars and grabbed the last few planets, but I was expanding.

The Korx were rather large, having already conquered several foes, and they had sent many freighters to my worlds. Still, I was starting to get my machine in place, so I bribed the Terrans to attack them and helped in cracking the Korx cartel to end this year...

Year 7 - The Machine
You wonder what my survey ships had been doing, because near the end of year 6 I had first contact with the Yor! Here I thought some races had just been killed before I met them. The Yor also piled in against the Korx, and they were defeated under insurmountable numbers.

At this point the galaxy had an interesting balance. The Terrans owned just slightly less than half the galaxy, the Yor had about a third of the galaxy, and I had the tiny remainder. I was confident that combined with the Terrans we could defeat the Yor, but I hate Alliance wins... and really I would know that if it finished that way it was the Terrans who would have won the game. Still, I had never built a military outside of a few tiny ships, and with their huge military rating and worlds I couldn't risk breaking my Alliance with the Terrans as they were likely to turn on me.

So I had to be sneaky. I started to build constructors. Lots and lots and lots of constructors. I was willing to just sit back (Yor and Terrans had maxed the tech tree at this point, so slowing things down was advantage me... I needed to pick up some of those last techs everyone else had. For them more time gained them no more advantage at this point)

Sadly, war broke out between the Yor and Terrans anyway. I was along with my transports to get a share of the spoils, but I would wait to invade until a Terran transport was just a year or two away (they would then move to the recently conquered planet and get "stuck"... sitting there doing nothing adjacent to my planet for months) so that the assimilation of the Machine worlds went as slow as possible.

I spread out my constructors so that I had 16 in every Terran sector. Once I had done that I finally, finally started to test combat ships (remember, the point of this game).

I didn't have large hulls yet, but I did have black hole guns. I built a few ships with the Tulon component and fleeted them. Hmmmm, the bonus didn't stack. I see now how they are supposed to work, you have a "command ship" with the fleet booster - and because they are a large component that ship will be targeted last as it has the lowest total attack, and you surround it with higher attack craft.

My command fighter was called the Mobster - and came with a base attack of 80 guns. With all of my bonuses that went to a 177 attack, and then the Tulon component added another +35 for total attack on my medium command ships of 212. But I surrounded them with basic fighters called Thugs - and these puppies had a base attack of 176. With my bonuses that went to a 390 attack, and the Tulon module from the command ship added +77 to each of them for a total of 467 attack for each Thug (remember that +25% luck I had taken... oh yeah!). This meant that my fleets of 10 mediums had a total fleet attack of 4882.

This wasn't bad, but it wasn't good enough. Yor fleets of Dreadnaughts piled up with doom ray type weapons were packing 5k a fleet (thank goodness no suicidal bonuses for the Yor in this game, those should have been 8k attack fleets). I couldn't afford to let the Yor ever attack me, with medium fighters my attrition rate would be too high. But if I could attack I could wipe out the dreads without taking any damage due to super warrior. The Yor ships also were faster than me (9 to 8 speed). Therefore I had to add one more ship to my fleets.

To go with the Mobsters and Thugs I also built tons of Minions. A Minion was a tiny fighter with no guns and all engines. These suckers had 13 move, and would "pack up" around my fleets. Basically, for a fleet of 10 mediums I would also send maybe two dozen Minions. They would sit three to a square in the 8 squares around my fleet not in fleets themselves. Each one of those tiny fighters would soak up an entire move of those 5k Yor fleets. In the end, I was able to fight the Yor huge hulls without ever taking a single loss of a ship with guns on it (the Minions died in droves) and most of my Mobsters and Thugs had advanced to somewhere between level 7 and level 13.

I like how this works, although without the tiny hulls to prevent attrition I'm not sure I would approve of using medium hulls for an endgame-everyone-else-has-the-tech-tree-maxed game. While I've lost plenty of ships, I've never lost a "combat" ship, only unarmed ships all game. However, my starting to add damage to the Terran war machine meant that the Yor were being ground to nothingness.

Year 8 - Betrayal
Well, I didn't have any large or huge ships, but I figured this was as good as it was going to get. I had to break my alliance with the Terrans before the last few Yor worlds disappeared, and they were down to 5 worlds between 3 systems.

I decided to make my move against the Terrans. I broke the Alliance, and broke my own bank building starbases...

I knew this was going to be a problem, so I had been stockpiling money. On the same turn I broke the alliance I built 3-4 military starbases in every Terran sector with a planet (those 16 constructors I had moved the previous year) and loaded them each up with -3 enemy speed and +1 to my speed. The Terran Alliance was larger, more powerful, and more wealthy than me... but if I declared war now their entire army was now also going to be instantly stuck.

I moved my fleets of minions to the starbases, and nervously started to move my fleets within 1-2 turns of the bordering Terran worlds. To their credit, the Terrans were pretty upset with all those aggressive starbases, but we had a long history of friendship, so they decided not to declare war. Their mistake.

Once my Minions were in place I attacked the border worlds. With my 4.8k attack fleets, luck and Super Warrior I could attack with no worry of the Terrans doing damage. Their fleets turned to fight me... and stopped.

See, their fleets were all reduced to 1 move, and it took them that one move to kill a single Minion. I had tarpitted the entire Terran force without firing a shot. This let my 3 fleets (I only had 30 medium fighters) roll the edge of the Terran Alliance at my leisure, easily destroying defenders without damage and then invading. They couldn't move, even when building and launching transports the transport would only get one space away. AND my forces had a between a +3 to a +4 speed boost from those same military starbases.

I lost Minions in droves, but never lost a single starbase, and conquered a little less than half of the Terran worlds in the year. I also conquered the last Yor worlds.

Year 9 - Death by Paralysis
In fact, the Terrans never were able to move a ship more than a single space the rest of the game. Because they could never bring their numbers or economy to bear it was just a matter of time before my small, focused fleets turned border world after border world into my territory. In September of the 9th year the last Terran world fell.


I was excited, I was ecstatic! I had done it. I should have been dead. This was by far the single greatest comeback I have ever had. One world on a huge galaxy and -8k in the bank three years in and I came back to win. Whew. And then, I realized, no screenshots, nothing to memorialize the experience to show anyone how I did it. So, I decided to write this long and boring text-only AAR. Hope you enjoyed it.


And thanks Stardock for such a thrilling game. It was only possible through your hard work. Now I need to take a break with a nice relaxing suicidal game I think....

:HOT:

~ Wyndstar
124,916 views 30 replies
Reply #1 Top
Impressive.

I have to give you credit for playing on maso-even if you normally play higher. I had a more epic comeback than this, in an older version of DA (negative 537 million BC-yes, that's MILLION), but that was only on normal, and I wasn't limited to one planet-thank God. I probably wouldn't have survived due to influence alone had I been.

I love how you used the Terrans to kill (nearly) everyone else off first.
Reply #2 Top
Kudos.

A truly great comeback and excellent writeup.

I'm looking forward to see what a player of your class does to the MVL. ;)
Reply #3 Top
That is awesome!!! I would not have the patience to even attempt to come back from, what seemed at the time, insurmountable odds. An excellent read, i applaud your skill and cunning!!!

:CONGRAT:
Reply #4 Top
Awesome read and a hearty congratulations on the win!
Reply #5 Top
Impressive Wyndstar. This certainly shows expert manipulation of the AI...One of the most useful skills in this game is the ability to turn the AIs against each other and keep them balanced/neutralized until you can take advantage of their paralysis. Well done!
Reply #6 Top
Impressive.
Reply #7 Top
Even for one of the finest GalCiv players out there, this is an impressive feat and I can only imagine being good enough to do something similar some day. From now on, you are my inspiration to get better at the game.
Reply #8 Top
To go with the Mobsters and Thugs I also built tons of Minions. A Minion was a tiny fighter with no guns and all engines. These suckers had 13 move, and would "pack up" around my fleets. Basically, for a fleet of 10 mediums I would also send maybe two dozen Minions. They would sit three to a square in the 8 squares around my fleet not in fleets themselves. Each one of those tiny fighters would soak up an entire move of those 5k Yor fleets.


Oh, man, I've got to try this....
Reply #9 Top
just an amazing read for what i'm sure was an amazing game, congratulations! it's times like THAT my friends that keeps us playing!
Reply #10 Top
I thought that was both inspiring and entertaining.

Thanks for taking the time to do the write up, it made for a very welcome and worthwhile break from work.

Regards,

VC
Reply #11 Top
Thanks for the feedback guys. Yeah, it was thrilling. I wasn't close to being the strongest civ until late in year 8 of a 9 year game. And as late as early year seven my military consisted of only 3 tiny hull ships with 3 attack each (actually my bonuses eventually increased that to 5 attack each! 15 total!!!)

The Minions sitting on my military starbases... giving each starbase many turns of invulnerability - were really the key to knocking out the much larger Terran civ when I finally decided to take them on.

You really can't plan a game like this ahead of time. I don't know why I didn't just give up... pride maybe? But I'm glad I decided to try and fight through that awful first few years. I'm glad some of you are inspired by my play style... but if I hadn't badly mismanaged and misplayed the first few years I never should have been in such a bad position in the first place :SURPRISED: I screwed up the early game pretty bad to have ever been in such a hole to begin with.

Good luck out there!
~ Wyndstar
+3 Loading…
Reply #12 Top
I have to ask-would you have given up had you been 537m BC in the hole?

Now THAT'S a hole.

As for how it happened, that was a bug, which it took me...several months to encounter...and I believe has been fixed since.

Really don't mean to rain on your parade; what you did was above and beyond the call of duty. I can't help but be curious at what point you -would- give up, though, and that game of mine is the best (or worst, rather) example I can offer up; at least that I've experienced.
Reply #13 Top
Wyndstar it is just genius the way use elements of the game. I never would of thought of that. As always this has been entertaining and eye opening. Great work. :)
Reply #14 Top
This sounds like a great game - but I love comebacks. :)
Reply #15 Top
I have to ask-would you have given up had you been 537m BC in the hole?


Honestly it would depend on the game. A big factor would be how many planets I had, how many planets I could get, what my population and tax sizes were, what my technology level was... etc.

I might give up. I rarely do unless I know I'm beaten. If an enemy starts taking worlds of mine and I have no options left I might quit before my last planet is taken.

In a situation where it is vs. the environment I don't so much, because my death isn't inevitable. In this game I had the largest military right next door and only 1 planet to work with. If I had more planets and was only playing on normal difficulty... I might keep playing, I might not. Another factor is how long I would estimate the turn-around would take, I don't like spending more than a day or two on any game.

And sometimes I give up when maybe I could still win... usually when I'm testing something. Go in with a specific super ability/race ability combination and try and attack the game with just one attribute. If it isn't working I am likely to give without actually being defeated because I have the data I was after.

Good job on coming back from such a low bank number, especially if it was a bug. The come from behind wins are usually the most fun.

~ Wyndstar
Reply #16 Top
Hi!
The come from behind wins are usually the most fun.

So true. From many many many (... ;) ) games I've played, only a few of them are still remembered. And most of them are the struggling-for-survival-beating-the-impossible-odds ones. I'm pretty sure you'll remember this one for a loooong time!

BR, Iztok
+1 Loading…
Reply #18 Top
Congratulations Wyndstar,

as usual an inspiring and entertaining read. It's people like you and your stories, that keep me always coming back to this game to try things differently. Most games get pretty boring after you figured out the mechanics, but this game is so complex that even after that you still have dozens of ways to go about your business. Just wonderful. Keep it up :CONGRAT:
Reply #19 Top
A lovely insight into GCII. Just shows that I still have much to learn...
Reply #20 Top
Thanks for posting that Wyndstar -- it was a really interesting read. Loved your strategy employing unarmed swift ships to pull the Drengin out of your territory and into your neighbors'. I never, ever would have thought to do that in million years.
Reply #21 Top
Good job on coming back from such a low bank number, especially if it was a bug. The come from behind wins are usually the most fun. ~ Wyndstar
Firstly, my apologies for pseudo-threadjacking.

I'm somewhat tempted to do a writeup of that game (though this post almost is one-you have all been warned), as just saying I was 537m BC in the hole really doesn't even tell half the story. To be honest, though, I don't remember that much of the game; in fact, I don't even remember who I was playing as...think it was a custom, and since my old drive died, I no longer have any saves from that game. I did, however, -only- (note the emphasis, because 28m BC is still a lot of money) make it 28m BC out of the hole by myself.

I do, of course, remember the more epic parts of the game...like when the Peacekeepers showed up in FLEETS OF TWENTY huge hulled ships (no, I'm NOT kidding, I wish I was) and proceeded to absolutely DECIMATE the AI's ships and my starbases, with their 400 missile attack and FOURTEEN HUNDRED shields. Sounds like a weak fleet, right? That's per SHIP. That's an 8,000 attack/28,000 defense fleet, for God's sake. It WAS kind of funny to watch the Drengin drop to 0 military might in about 10 turns (silly Drengin with their Doom Rays), but still. I eventually had to kill the Peacekeepers (with no money, and no production!) because they were just lagging my system so hard. Then there was the time the Jagged Knife showed up, and stole half of everyone's planets (mostly mine, as I had ~half the galaxy). And, yes, both of these things (among others) happened while I was still (massively) in debt.

I honestly just kept playing it because I wanted to see how far I could get before the AI killed me. I was never expecting to win as soon as that production bug cropped up. I actually figured out shortly after it popped up (not too long after the colony rush, or maybe even during it; I forget) that it would take me somewhere in the vicinity of 2200 game years to get out of debt. Somehow, I don't think the Drengin would be willing to wait that long now that they have hyperdrive.

So when the old Xeno Ethics bug got me out of the hole after the UP (and by the UP I mean me; I did after all have ~60% of the votes at that point), voted all the other races should share 4 unique techs with me, I actually (literally) fell out of my chair laughing. I was convulsing on the floor for probably a good twenty minutes. I was only on normal difficulty, though with several opponent AIs, but I know my strengths and weaknesses well enough to know I could have -maybe- made it out alive on Tough. Maso+, though, is another story entirely. Suicidal would be aptly named in this situation.

You can say maybe I should have just traded for it as soon as the production bug happened, but, alas, I was playing with tech trading off. I can consider myself lucky I didn't pick it up before the production bug happened, though.
Reply #22 Top
So when the old Xeno Ethics bug got me out of the hole


IF I was playing a game without Xeno Ethics when that bug was still in the game then I never would have given up. In that case monetary difficulties aren't really a problem, more like a speed bump.

Fortunately that bug has now been fixed. I could have been a million trillion bcs in debt and kept going while that bug was around.

Not to rain on YOUR parade... ;)

~ Wyndstar
Reply #23 Top
I do, of course, remember the more epic parts of the game...like when the Peacekeepers showed up in FLEETS OF TWENTY huge hulled ships (no, I'm NOT kidding, I wish I was) and proceeded to absolutely DECIMATE the AI's ships and my starbases, with their 400 missile attack and FOURTEEN HUNDRED shields. Sounds like a weak fleet, right? That's per SHIP. That's an 8,000 attack/28,000 defense fleet, for God's sake.


All this whilst playing on normal???? Hmmmmm....:NOTSURE:
Reply #24 Top
@Wyndstar
My parade is not rained on. :)

It was, after all, a bug that got me into that mess...and a bug that got me out.

Keep in mind, this was a no tech trading game, I had very little tech researched when the production bug that caused all the problems cropped up, and could not build ships. So I couldn't trade for tech, and I just about couldn't invade for it, either. I don't even think I had planetary invasion yet-this was back when I played slow-but I could be wrong. In any case, I know that if I did have it that was the extent of my soldiering. If the UP tech issue hadn't come up, I would have very probably never gotten Xeno Ethics. I actually never even bothered to take back my planets from the Jagged Knife, because I literally could not afford to. They did take half my planets, but due to the fact they took half of everyone else's as well, my standing in the UP remained almost the same.

There was a point in the game where I assumed IF I won (which I did not expect to happen) that I would still be in debt when the game ended. I thought that would be an interesting way to end it, though.

Also. If I still had a copy of that game's save files, I'd load it up from before I got Xeno Ethics and continue from there in 1.80g. ;) I've almost (I said almost) been hoping I'll run into the production bug again, but something tells me it's probably related to the Xeno Ethics bug code-wise, so I don't expect to see it anymore.

I would have continued playing if it hadn't happened, it just struck me as so ridiculous that it did happen. This is the game that introduced me to that bug, and it did so in a rather memorable way.

I'm glad it's fixed, though.

@neilo
Yeah. Mega pirates also showed up once, but they weren't quite as ridiculous as the Peacekeepers, and the other races were able to (eventually) neutralize them. Dread Lords showed up...not once but TWICE-but fortunately both times they showed up they were near two or three other civs and were quickly conquered by them. I was actually fairly surprised that the Normal AI put such a priority on the DLs. The Vegans showed up a bare minimum of three times, but they didn't have much effect on the game.

Also, the Torians touched the Telenanth, but they didn't have -that- much territory and didn't do too much for most of the game. I normally bought my ships from them, so their reduced military may have been part of the reason for that. However, by the time the game ended, the Torians had virtually all stats in the +700%+ range-with no mining starbases (I stole their single econ resource using a constructor upgraded from a ship I bought from them).

What can I say, it was a long game.

As far as the Peacekeepers go, though, they're based (AFAIK) on countering the current techs of the galaxy at the time. The difficulty setting didn't affect it at all; just the fact that the Drengin had huge hulled fleets of ships with Doom Rays.

This is also the game that made me detest the 5 parsec speed limit mega event. It made the few outdated ships that I did have, which I "bought" off of the AI with planets (that later flipped back to me), even more useless.

I just really find it funny that all of these mega events happened while I was in debt. The vast majority of the time when I get a mega event it seems like it's trying to give the AIs a chance, and from what I've seen here on the forums, it more frequently happens when the player is "ahead".

I can't help but be curious what equation the game was using to determine that I was "ahead" (if indeed it thought I was) when my military, production, research, tech, approval, and pretty much anything else that mattered were all dead last. It's probable my income was the highest, but then again it pretty much had to be.
Reply #25 Top
In a game like both of you guys have described....i would not have been able to quit fast enough!! Kudos for having the intestinal fortitude for sticking those games out!!!!