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Vasari is underpowered!?

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Vasari is underpowered!?

from Sins Forums
Ive had a few games now and gotten to some "conclusion" that the vasari is weak compared to the TEC.

Since conclusion is in "" is because i and a few others might be using them wrong

To get to the point, i was thinking they would be upper ships and very few of them, but the TEC would counter this as the have more cash to build more, so it still would be a 50/50 change to win.

We had some disscussion about it on IRC (im using SDC so i dont have the log) where some say they aint ment for brute force. Or that they have upper skills, then i have to wonder why im losing almost every battle encounter with the TEC, as the TEC has a few more ships and the Vasari got a 1 more armor, it doesnt add up. This is both early and late game it seems to be the same.

All this doesnt make any sense to me, as the TEC have been in peace for 10.000 years, the Vasari should obviously be way stronger.

Also on IRC it was said the Vasari got Phase Gate to get your ships fast and inbehind enemy lines they are better. Well as it is now the Phase Gate tech is at civic lvl 9 and before you even get there its very very late game.

Just to let anyone know i love sins, just dont see where the Vasari is as powerful as the Lore and dev's says
152,253 views 167 replies
Reply #151 from Sins Forums Top
1- In small games whereby vasari cannot tech up to the appropriate techs, they have a distinct disadvantage at this time.


Your whole argument falls apart before it starts. This is a very false statement.
Reply #152 from Sins Forums Top
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Reply #153 from Sins Forums Top
I think the Vasari are fine you just gotta know what your doing and not let your capital ships blow up in small games lol. (Their capital ships pwn.)
Reply #154 from Sins Forums Top
Vasari:
DamagePerBank:FRONT 150.000000
PreBuffCooldownTime 7.500000
150 / 7.5 = 20dps

TEC:
DamagePerBank:FRONT 120.000000
PreBuffCooldownTime 6.000000
120 / 6 = 20dps


quite true........wait......LOL.....man if this is moddable i could just play as the vasari or tec and mod it to be 100000 dps...lol....to easy though......perhaps...500 dps. whad do u think
Reply #155 from Sins Forums Top
The Vasari, in my opinion are not underpowered, they just have to be used differently. Ever game I have played so far I crushed the TEC. I played on game where I was playing against 6 Hard TEC and even though I experienced some set backs early on, once I got some tech upgraded I just rolled right over the TEC one at a time.
The skirmisher is a good ship to use in large numbers, it has a good attack and I've always come out on top when I had several of those in a small fleet.
Reply #156 from Sins Forums Top
quite true........wait......LOL.....man if this is moddable i could just play as the vasari or tec and mod it to be 100000 dps...lol....to easy though......perhaps...500 dps. whad do u think


lol i've messed with damage a lot believe me....it's hilarious

Reply #157 from Sins Forums Top

1- In small games whereby vasari cannot tech up to the appropriate techs, they have a distinct disadvantage at this time.


Your whole argument falls apart before it starts. This is a very false statement.


actually if vasari are balanced for early game (as you are implying by what you just stated, not that I agree) and become significantly stronger in late game, while tec dont get as strong with higher techs, then my argument that the current balance system is not a good approach (one side gets significantly better based on tech, while other doesn't at the same significance) is not weakened at all and doesn't fall apart.
Reply #158 from Sins Forums Top
I didn't imply that they are balanced for early game and become significantly stronger in late game. They become unique in late game, just as the TEC becomes unique. Both sides advance different technologies, and both are equally viable (assuming Returning Armada is tweaked to not give you extra ships past the fleet point cap).

I still have not played a single MP game where I had my butt kicked early by a TEC player just because I played Vasari and they played TEC.
Reply #159 from Sins Forums Top
honestly after playing a few smaller games as vasari, I'm siding it Annatar here. although whether or not they're balanced late game, thats up to see.
Reply #160 from Sins Forums Top
although whether or not they're balanced late game, thats up to see.


They have a few techs that I think are a bit stronger than they should be (mainly, Returning Armada and the tech to see all phase jumps anywhere, whose name escapes me at the moment), and those can be toned down a bit, but as a whole I wouldn't say the Vasari are imbalanced late game. They shift their focus to mobility with phase gates, while TEC shifts focus to economy/logistics (with the techs to generate income from any empire spending money on building, and the increase in logistics slots). So the Vasari player can move around easier, and the TEC player can just pump out a lot of ships faster than the Vasari can. Both are unique, I wouldn't say one is more powerful than the other. Just depends on what people like

But, for the sake of discussion, how do you feel they are too weak early game, archpsi? What makes them weak compared to TEC?
Reply #161 from Sins Forums Top
After reading the the topic i have a question, How the vasari will last to late game(gate tech). I mean if tec can outpower them in quantity of ships all game long, how the vasari will have resourses to counter tec and level up?

If i am a Tec player and im fighting an enemy that cant match my numbers i will attack in several systems at the same time, one time after the other, till he cant build defenses quickly enough or ships to counter.

The best of vasari to win will be to make chooke points and try to hold Tec long enough to build a web of phase gates to attack undefended Tec systems.



Well if this cant be countered in small/medium maps is crap. if vasari are only a good option for big maps, MP will became boring. I reminds me, Necromancer in HOMM, were in big maps were invincible and small maps very hard to play(this was because small maps offer little skeleton to get)
Reply #162 from Sins Forums Top
After reading the the topic i have a question, How the vasari will last to late game(gate tech). I mean if tec can outpower them in quantity of ships all game long, how the vasari will have resourses to counter tec and level up?


But while the Vasari have fewer ships and need fleet capacity upgrades earlier, each of their ships has 30% more hull/shields, as well as self repair for skirmishers and shield upgrades, both at tech 2 and both to give them an edge against the TEC.

If i am a Tec player and im fighting an enemy that cant match my numbers i will attack in several systems at the same time, one time after the other, till he cant build defenses quickly enough or ships to counter.

The best of vasari to win will be to make chooke points and try to hold Tec long enough to build a web of phase gates to attack undefended Tec systems.


Are you playing MP or single against the AI?

Also, that's not how phase gates work. You build them in your territory to allow yourself to move around faster and reinforce faster. Only when combined with the Antorak's ultimate can you use phase gates to jump fleets into enemy systems. Other than that scenario, having phase gates or not makes no difference in what you can attack.

Well if this cant be countered in small/medium maps is crap. if vasari are only a good option for big maps, MP will became boring.


There are plenty of ways to play Vasari well in small/medium maps with or without phase gates. Most of the long time beta testers have been playing with TEC for so long that we know pretty much every nook and cranny about them and have hammered out good concrete strategies. The Vasari haven't been available for long, and many people seem to forget that it should take a while to master and figure out the optimal way to start and all the viable strategies.
Reply #163 from Sins Forums Top
Well if this cant be countered in small/medium maps is crap. if vasari are only a good option for big maps, MP will became boring

actually what I've found is that they are just as effective in small maps, but the require intense micro to keep alive (refering mainly to cap ships here) if you can hold your enemy at bay its simply a matter of keeping pace with his tech (as opposed to getting way outteched, then your fooked anyhow)
Reply #164 from Sins Forums Top
Are you playing MP or single against the AI?


none, what i know about the game is what i can read in the posts.

So, vasari will play like protoss? strong units,low numbers, high cost, key upgrades to counter enemy numbers. Choosing when to fight.

Reply #165 from Sins Forums Top

So, vasari will play like protoss? strong units,low numbers, high cost, key upgrades to counter enemy numbers. Choosing when to fight.


In a word: no.

They play like themselves -- yes, they are a little stronger than their opponents, but their true power lies in mobility and intelligence (military kind, knowing what your opponent is up to).
Reply #166 from Sins Forums Top
Ron here is my Vasari apprentice/prodigy. listen to his genius   
Reply #167 from Sins Forums Top

Ron here is my Vasari apprentice/prodigy. listen to his genius   


do I sense a "I AM your father"?

other than that they are correct, its not the number and not the strengh, its mobility and intelligence.