Predictable layouts = no exploration fun

from Sins Forums
One of my favorite things to do in all RTS game is explore the map because it's usually different and you dont know what you will see or get. Whether it was AoE, Starcraft, Civilization, or anything else. CoH is the exception because the mix of gameplay and good map design always lead to dynamic battles.

With sins I don't get the satisfaction of exploration unfortunately. There is the phase lanes and gravity wells that really limits the layout and exploring. There is the exploring planets, but that doesn't feel right at the moment. I think most of the suggestions that would promote exploration have been shot down by the devs such as orbits and substitutes for phase lanes.

Right now I cannot think of any ideas to make exploring more fun, so I leave discussion open to anyone that does have ideas.
32,208 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Well Starcraft didn't have a random map generator so after a while exploring the map didn't do anything, but I digress.

I haven't pre-ordered (and thus haven't played Sins as of yet), but if there is a random map generator, shouldn't that provide sufficiet varity for interesting exploration (if not please explain why)?
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
I've been happy with the Random Maps
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Personally I'm happy with how it is thus far, and am not sure I would want it any more open than it is currently. Though, adding planetary bodies with orbits that say, have a phase lane that is only accessible every so often, could make things interesting.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
I think Orbits would be awesome. It would give an entirely new layer of strategy.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
already tried, already dismissed

there are problems both with the functionality and gameplay, if the game was about solar systems within galaxies, maybe then it would make sense, but when you have planets whizzing around one another it makes developing defense and a strategy VERY tough.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Exploration is okay at this game. Sure it isnt as deep as other games but I have learned first hand what good intel can do in a game. You have to keep scouts going(cause they often run into the Pirate base and die) or else you can end up with very messy battles where you thought you had an advantage based on two minutes ago.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Same... my mid-late game use of scouts has been poor, and its has cost me!

A 200 credit scout ship is a small price to pay for decent intel.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
For those that don't have the beta, when you select a given scenario no two games are the same in terms of exploration. Random planets, asteroids, belts, plasma storms, special planet bonuses, starting positions, environmental aesthetics, and more are generated per game so you always get a unique experience every time. There are also a number of random map options (phase lanes not preset) for various size games. There are many more to come.  Bascially you have the choice of playing a carefully constructed map with random components, or a completely random map. We'll have more info on custom maps in the future.   
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
Sorry Pollux, but most RTS(the big ones) dont have random Maps.
Because its hard for the Computer to build up a balanced Map with all the terrain features.

Sins can do it, because the terrain is Space , sooo Sins kicks the ASS of all RTS games .... by the way Sins isnt a RTS game
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

For those that don't have the beta, when you select a given scenario no two games are the same in terms of exploration. Random planets, asteroids, belts, plasma storms, special planet bonuses, starting positions, environmental aesthetics, and more are generated per game so you always get a unique experience every time. There are also a number of random map options (phase lanes not preset) for various size games. There are many more to come.  Bascially you have the choice of playing a carefully constructed map with random components, or a completely random map. We'll have more info on custom maps in the future.   



Will we ever get an optional type menu like in beta 2 where we can choose how many starting resources, pirates or no pirates, stuff like that?

by the way Sins isnt a RTS game

Its not?

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
oh yes it is.
Will we ever get an optional type menu like in beta 2 where we can choose how many starting resources, pirates or no pirates, stuff like that?

we will be getting that back, the devs say that this system is temporary because they want us to focus on multiplayer for now.
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
Its not?


They are calling it a 4XRTS, but the majority of it is RTS, the 4X factors a little more subdued.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
One of my favorite things to do in all RTS game is explore the map because it's usually different and you dont know what you will see or get. Whether it was AoE, Starcraft


Not sure what Starcraft you played... the only real variable was who started where.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
Its not?


They are calling it a 4XRTS, but the majority of it is RTS, the 4X factors a little more subdued.



The 4x factor isnt subdued. Its the Roleplaying element of Sins that is subdued. Most 4x games take the form of a Roleplaying 4x game where they bombard you with imagery and tons of almost pointless things to tinkle with ,that makes you immersed and feel like you are controlling the wellbeing of people in space. Sins has all the 4x elements but takes the form of a Strategical 4x game and bombards you with more strategical and tactical options .Thus losing a planet isnt going to make you cry a river because 90 million people perish , but you will be pissed you lost a tactical position and a credit income source.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
Maybe he means Age of Empires and co... but those games arent RTS games, I dont know the english word, in german we know those games under the name "Wirtschatfssimulation" or so.
Interpreted ~ EconomySimulation.
But those arent RTS games....
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
I think the combination of random maps complete with customised ones from beta 2 and the new special ones with some particular design or function will provide a nice variety.

I have to look at koscs (?) map, but apparently there is also the possibility of creating custom stuff, so if that is halfway simple, everyone can mod the maps the way the like them, maybe with extremes in anomalies, asteroids, ice, volcanic, terran worlds and so on.

plus, and this will likely also come at some point: different game modes like kill the flag ship, hoard most ressources, king of the hill ( or whatever, king of the sun).

just one more thing: the first worlds from your homeworld are almost always asteroids, right? I can imagine that if it keeps being asteroid - planet - asteroid it could get repetive. but actually, I probably need more game practice and see more maps, because with the many new planet types now in, it should not be such a big problem anymore. ( really like the different effects of nebulas, ion clauds, gas giants and so on.)

edit: yet one more thing, the temporary phase lanes (i.e. only work some of the time due to some odd physical configuration) sounds interesting, if the intervalls are longer and a bit unregular. you could get a warning a short time before the status changes.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top


just one more thing: the first worlds from your homeworld are almost always asteroids, right?


Frequently, but not always. I've seen volcanic, desert, Ice, and on one memorable occasion no less than three lanes leading to three terran planets. (I'm leaning towards that one being a bug, myself... or just really good luck)
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
the temporary phase lanes


they aren't going to be possible as far as I can tell, once a lane is created it just can't magically disappear from the code...