Sins Beta 3 - Gameplay Feedback *POST HERE*

Gameplay is NOT a focus for Beta 3, but if you've got something to say...

This thread is for non-technical feedback for Sins of a Solar Empire Beta 3. 

Beta 3 is a multiplayer technical test and is not designed for gameplay. Please keep in mind that Beta 4 will be the next gameplay beta for Sins. Still, if you've got suggestions, praise, or tweaks you'd like us to consider, please post them here.

If you wish to make a bug, performance, or compatibility report about Beta 3, please post it here:

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?forumid=402&aid=163008

By keeping this information separate, it will go a long way towards us making Sins a better game!

Thanks!

215,640 views 297 replies
Reply #1 Top
Two things need tweaking gameplay wise. First of all, Pirates should not be spawning many pillagers at all, or at least they shouldn't be targeting planets before the other orbital structures are destroyed. This makes the pirates just way too big a threat. You HAVE to keep a large fleet near your planets, or else the pirates will just jump by your cannons and fighters and blow the planet to smithereens.

Second, there still needs to be a better way to mitigate the horrible allegiance penalties. Why even bother colonizing a planet thats only going to give you 10% allegiance, and on large maps no matter where you put your capital, your still going to get some 10% allegiance planets. The extra 10% from culture is just not enough. I have an idea for this though. Having 100% culture give your home planet another 50% allegiance would be pretty cheap, but I don't think having 100% culture give you 50% more allegiance on a natural 10% allegiance world is way too good. So have the amount of allegiance gained from culture modified by how far away the planet is. This lets culture mitigate the bad allegiance worlds without overpowering it on your capital/near worlds.
Reply #2 Top
speed...
game, too slow...

take... forever

make me a variable speed system! (ala supcom)
keep in mind that Beta 4 will be the next gameplay beta for Sins

*whine complain* blah blah blah vasari. *whine complain* blah blah blah advent! *whine complain* blah blah blah TEC...

that about sums it up.
Reply #3 Top
I'm curious why the upper tier of Crew Training was dropped. Did those last two levels unbalance the late game? As it is now, mt "new recruit" capital ship can be raised to only level four on the way to the front. He doesn't last long up there. He usually gets one level and dies.
Reply #4 Top
Selecting the pips in the bracket surrounding the planet icon is useless.

It selects both colony frigates and construction frigates with it and everytime i have to zoom in and deselect them manually which is tedious.

Either have the pips exclude col and con frigates when selected or have a shortcut key which automatically discludes col and cons from a selected fleet.
Reply #5 Top
I am having NO Problems with the Pirates.
I think its because before I build my OMGODHUGEFLEETPWNZERSALL I make Sure my defenses are at Full capacity with both rails and hangers.

I Actually think the attacks keep me thinking and keeps the game from getting too cushy lol

Just my opinion though.


Reply #6 Top
Sometimes when I am zoomed in close and try to scroll I get a huge Wave like skipping effect especially when scrolling right over a planet.



Reply #7 Top
I love what you have done by putting planets and anomolies and asteriods on different plains. Not only does it look coller now, but it also makes things coller when your ships phase space at different angels to enemy ships.

Its not a 2D world anymore and the 3D function seems to be runnin' rampant with the AI and your own fleets. I have had some of the coolest looking battles so far.

I do agree with Schem, I really want the game to speed up.
Reply #8 Top
Just finished a 7hr game(medium map, played through everything), heres a list i wrote up, of issues i found. This was a single player only game, VS 4 AIs on easy.

Bounty related issues:

- I get text saying "bounty increased by 0 to 0" when it actually increased by # to #( very rarely happens)
- I get told a bounty increases by a negative #(should say decreases), i also get the audio/voice message saying the bounty has increased when its actually decreasing.

Pirate Stuff:
- Pirate bases are capturable via culture(just seems very wrong imho)
- Actual Pirate bases are very weak and take nothing to take over. I havent had todo anything other then send in a single Kol level 7+ and it gets rid of everything and the planet.(assuming a raid fleet isnt spawning just then)
- Pirate Raid fleets seem to ignore other fleets/forces while on their way to their target planet, this ok-ish, except they dont seem to defend their base if a fleet appears in the system before they leave
- Pirate raiding fleet seems to enjoy "getting stuck" just outside a gravity well, not jumping to their next planet. Until enough ships are destroyed, it might be a specific ship that is holding the jump up, cant really tell.
- When pirates choose a target planet, they should change their raide fleet size partially by whats in the system. I dont worry about pirates at all, even 10 hrs into a game, because all they do is run to a planet that has insane amounts of railguns i dont even lose a defence item now. The only time they are a threat is very early game where its economically impossible to have any small amount of defences.

Other:
- When clicking the "threat report" it doesnt seem to jump to the releavent fleet/planet(ie enemy moving towads/arrived) im pretty sure it did that in B2
- The time between a planet being colonizable after being blocked via culture and being taken over by culture seems either to random or to small. I had a colony become colonized(hit the button the instant it said i could) and within seconds of it being colonised it converted to the enemy, who had just lost 2 of 3 connected systems.
- I kept being told that "launching squads is prhobited" even when the launching ship was fully in a gravity well, or outside it, actually it did that everywhere except for inside a no-squad nebula... forgot to try it there...
- If 2 capital ships are in the same system, and one is max level(10) and the other is not, the XP from killing/destroying things is still divided between the two ships, even thou only one ship gets any. This could be a design decision or a bug, if its by design i call evil.. took forever to get a fleet all to level 10
- XP for destroying traders/freighters is to high IMO, 20/ship is easily farmable, All i did was put my fleet in a system and have their fighters destroy all the traders, leveled up almost as fast as a solo Cap ship VS pirate raid fleet.

Yes... sorry for the long post, and im sure i forgot somethings. Hopefully i posted this in the right spot.
Reply #9 Top
Anomalies, Gas Giants, and Nebula's are a nice touch

I Agree with pretty much all of the above, but i want to add a few other things....

The AI still needs some tweaking. It is still doing the mass retreats, and routes even though the forces are even. Sometimes the AI still retreats when it has the advantage.

When ships, and structures blow up they turn invisible (except for damage fx) for a few seconds then explode.
Reply #10 Top
Today 20Sept2007 was the first time I have played this game. First Impressions were that I love the idea of this game. I played for about 2 hours and enjoyed it. The first thing that I feel should be addressed is giving the player options for camera movement and mouse speed while watching combat take place. It feels very "touchy/delicate/sensitive" pick one of those words. Another suggestion give some alternatives for model/ship designs (maybe from a pull of ships already created and allow the player to choose X ship for Capital Ship X) I like the idea of leveling up the empire through a WoW/Diablo style tech tree. The game feels more like a "RTS" and less 4X but there are some basic elements that remain. I really like the way the planets and other "zones" look and function but there again thats were the game loses some of the 4X feel because its very basic. Level up the planet 1-2-3 times = more population ect / rather than build on the planets surface (it is a different type of game compared to Imperium Galactica II being RTS itself) possibly the idea of Star Bases would be a nice expensive option (probably already in the game design just not being used for beta) Slow is good I really like the epic game speeds. I like the idea of exploring and finding cool s--t. Pirates/Mercs/Alien Worlds/Artifacts/ect thats a game in itself. Well this is long and I could go on but I look forward to playing the game again tomorrow after work. Graphics look great, battle sequences could use a little more action/movement even if it is just for show and no other purpose. I see the focus of the game and it will be very addictive and its almost the Perfect space game but there are some elements that will one day be addressed in a game one day in our future.
Reply #11 Top

Lots of good points. All are being examined, especially speeding it up in multiplayer. Here are a couple quick responses but I've taken notes on everything.

I'm curious why the upper tier of Crew Training was dropped. Did those last two levels unbalance the late game?

Yes.

It selects both colony frigates and construction frigates with it and everytime i have to zoom in and deselect them manually which is tedious.

Yep, we'll fix it.

When clicking the "threat report" it doesnt seem to jump to the releavent fleet/planet(ie enemy moving towards/arrived) im pretty sure it did that in B2

Clicking it selects it now which allows you to focus if you want. Also, you can hit space bar like in many other RTS games.

Reply #12 Top
The Pirates are what keep the game interesting, don't let bad player decisions cause you to nerf them.

Pirates are not only ORIGINAL, they are the GOOD KIND OF ORIGINAL. Keep them in and make them as competitive as the players can handle.

Other then that.

Although I would never expect this to happen in the Beta Phase, it would be kind to include Colonizable moons that offer Resource/Artifact/Logistical/Tactical aid mini planets that could "supplement" the main planet.

Just my thought.

Moons are like mini planets that provide very little income and resources but can be used to supplement systems. They cannot grow past their normal pop cap and do not pay taxes.

Moon Upgrades.

Resource 1-2-3
Logistical 1-2 (3,6)
Tactical 1-2 (2,5)
Fleet Capicity (10,30)
Artifact 1-2-3

Terran Planet/Ice Planet. 0-1 Moons.
Desert Planets/Volcanic planets. 1-2 Moons.
Gas Giants. 3-5 Moons.

That way,

So imagine that these "tiny planets" would either make a Terran/Ice/Desert/Volcanic planet stronger with "mini-buffs" for supplementary power.

OR

You can control Gas Giant systems by colonizing the various moons in order to have the "mini-planet" effects cumilate enough to allow a sizeable base being placed not on Gas Giants but with Gas Giant systems.

So imagine all of this little bases on their tiny moons floating around Jupiter that serve as mining and labor hubs to allow the creation of a standard Space Base that feeds off the Moons.


That's my 2 cents.
Reply #13 Top

That's my 2 cents.


Don't forget, they really want us to focus on technical feedback ATM, not gameplay.
Reply #14 Top

Thanks for the feedback guys!

- When clicking the "threat report" it doesnt seem to jump to the releavent fleet/planet(ie enemy moving towads/arrived) im pretty sure it did that in B2

Yes, this was fixed. Click to left or right to go through the list and press space bar to go to that event. Now your screen doesnt jump all over the place when you just want to look through your list.

When ships, and structures blow up they turn invisible (except for damage fx) for a few seconds then explode.

We are looking into this.  They shouldnt disappear until the explosion goes.

Reply #15 Top
Ah, thanks Blair, there was a voice in the back of my head telling me to try the spacebar/enter button... but its the same voice that tells me not to drink alone.. i ignore that evil prohabitionist...

On the previously mentioned topic of buildings, the delay between when a building is scrapped(after being placed, Ie accidently place wrong type/wrong spot) and when your able to use the log/tact points again(assuming that placing maxed you out) is fairly long considering what happened. It takes no time for the building to explode/vanish but it seems to take a relativly long time for you to be able to use the points again.

Also, WHY o WHY did you change the point requirements for logistics buildings. The trade ones i could consider ok, but being stuck with 11/12 is just really evil... At the very least make the required points all *2 so your not left with a single point.

I also agree that the AI retreats way to much, i have to hunt down massive enemy fleets fairly often. There is no reason a fleet that makes me run the instant i pop into a planet area should start running. I know im human and the AI isnt, but when i send a fleet of 4 Cap ships lvl 7-10 into a system with 2 cap ships, 25 combat frigates(the cannon fodder ones) and alot of carriers, the AI actually retreats. I know this is probably well known, i just wanted to give a few real numbers to help out. Next time i run a game ill try and track the differences in fleet power that cause the AI to run... on a side note, if i suddenly run(IE insanley overpowered) does the AI debate following me, or does it just think "Bleh", also do the follow crippled ships to other planets/areas at all?

PS as to the technically focus of B3, im not a multiplayer really, last time i did multiplayer was porbably 6 yrs ago, starcraft killed MP for me *twitch*. Hence the reason i focus on gameplay/singleplayer.
Reply #16 Top

I agree with you 100%
The pirates are perfectly fine... in fact I would like them a bit tougher.
What is happening here is bad game tactical choices .
People are in such a hurry to capitol rush that they spend next to no effort defending their assets.

Just my opinion.


Reply #17 Top
Also, WHY o WHY did you change the point requirements for logistics buildings. The trade ones i could consider ok, but being stuck with 11/12 is just really evil... At the very least make the required points all *2 so your not left with a single point.


I think the point is that the new research centers are only worth 3/4ths or so as much as teh trade centers, balance wise. What we need is some kind of 1 point building that we can spam to make up the difference.
Reply #18 Top
Agree, the capital distance penalty is way too high, especially in big games, maybe a logistic structure that raise the allegiance grade will solve the problem without comprising balance. (The 1 point spam building?).
Reply #19 Top
The ai still uses sublight drives to go from 1 system 2 another which is stupid and people cant join my games it says (Disconnecting from game server)and this is annoying. There also seems to be very few gas giants which is gay cos i havent seen umm yet and i w ant to.
Reply #20 Top

Clearly the AI wanting to travel without Phase Space is a bug that doesn't want to be quashed.    Please send your save game that shows this behavior to Ironclad so they can try and track down why (zip or rar it to [email protected]).

Pirates and AI balancing in general is still a work-in-progress, but you shouldn't expect to see any major improvements until Beta 4.

Reply #21 Top
Impressions:

So I played my first game of B3 with Egable. We did a random galaxy (now we know better) on medium… locked teams, the 2 of us versus 4 comps.

First the game seemed to balance resources so that we could claim as much territory as the other 4 players… I kind of liked this. The AI however suffered from never researching culture, ice-colonization, or long range jumps.

We were all in one system, but then when I actually realized there were 4 other stars, I sent an Akkan and found my first Gas Giant. Notably Egable found out the hard-way that certain nebulas restrict anti-matter use!

So terrain is much better, the dead asteroids seem to be gone and replaced by fields, the fields and nebulas need to be more visually impressive though. I cannot stress enough how important having some empty space is! It stretches your supply lines so that you can be over extended which is a very good thing! Nebulas were quite nice, I like the effects they have on battles and some ambushes could be planned.

Gas Giants while very pretty is a big disappointment, I was really hoping for moons. We really should have moons, even if all you get is a 0 population world that cannot be upgraded in any fashion! That would let me build a couple of gauss turrets…. If your afraid of having 5 moons on a Gas Giant allowing fortresses just restrict their individual tactical placement to the area around the moon…. This would give you 5 very weak outposts, but would slow the enemy. That being said thank you for having the Gassers because it does add a very large no-man’s land that is nice.

The new logistics was fine, but it was sad that I wasted two slots on every asteroid if I had a trade station! A building that takes up 2 slots would be nice… like an outpost structure, which simply increases population by say 5…. Overall not very useful lol… but would be pretty.

The AI had some troubles with bounty; it eradicated the pirate sector in our home-star and then put 20K bounty on me and eventually 65K of bounty on Egable. The AI only attacked once, they killed an over-extended ice colony of mine… but they never colonized it. In fact the fleets that killed it stayed there the entire game! The AI is too happy blocking only one entrance to systems with Gauss Cannons… which by the way seem to have had a range increase? Perhaps not, perhaps the radius you’re allowed to place structures in was increased. Either way I found myself moving on the map more to avoid these nasty fortifications… they don’t stop us from attacking but they do make us maneuver… a good thing.

The new mouse is just not for me, perhaps for other people, but I just didn’t like it. I also wish the game had higher starting resources, as this makes the game go faster, also the colonization frigate could be allot better… I think you might want to consider making a somewhat viable combat ship, to counteract its utter uselessness compared to taking an Akkan. Why would you ever not choose an Akkan? You don’t need to buy colony frigates, and you will get new territories much faster, it’s great! If the colony frigate had say enough guns and armor that it could clear an asteroid with say 3 frigates (though with losses), then this would quicken the pace of the game quite a bit.

Pirates were fine, Egable will say otherwise, but one should take into consideration that if the AI wasn’t wasting so many credits on a bounty then the Pirates would not have been such a problem, also Egable never built more than a couple of light carriers and I don’t think they were ever engaged with Pirates, the single most important ship class against Pirates IMO.
Reply #22 Top
Agree, the capital distance penalty is way too high, especially in big games, maybe a logistic structure that raise the allegiance grade will solve the problem without comprising balance. (The 1 point spam building?).


How about a planet upgrade called 'Core World' in order to build it you must have max population upgrades... it grants a allegiance bonus, as well as a taxation bonus?

I like that idea... also lets us use the cool term of 'Core Worlds'
Reply #23 Top

Clearly the AI wanting to travel without Phase Space is a bug that doesn't want to be quashed.    Please send your save game that shows this behavior to Ironclad so they can try and track down why (zip or rar it to [email protected]).


Pirates and AI balancing in general is still a work-in-progress, but you shouldn't expect to see any major improvements until Beta 4.




That's to be expected. But with my relatively short time spent on Beta 3 it feels as if the AI took a step backwards.

In a one hour 1v1 with an Hard AI on one of the new maps, the one with the Asteroid fields in between the empires, the AI seemed to turtle in it's homeworld and didn't expand.
It massed 20+ Light Frigates and countless Gauss Turrets along side it's flagship, and only came out for a peak when I was knocking on it's frontdoor.
Reply #24 Top
I agree with the logistics points thing, it also seems that we can build fewer things.

The nebulas should be placed in the way to other systems, I get too many as dead-end systems off of planets. The penalties don't mean a thing if you never go there or fight there.

Does the AI still have the cap ship cheese? It seems that they build a LOT of caps. In a 1v1 game where we end up balanced planet/asteroid wise, the AI has dozens of frigates and keeps being able to build cap after cap. I was able to build 2 caps, about 10 carriers, about a dozen frigates and a couple of support ships and the AI kept churning out caps. At the end, I was only able to build 3 caps total and the AI had built 26! The our resources were pretty much equal, what does the AI sacrfice to keep building such insane levels of ships? And why?

They also kept putting a bounty on my head so the pirates kept coming after me(didn't mind, was very easy way to level up my cap ships) Where does the cash come from to keep building AND put bounties up? I know there's a limit on the variables the AI can juggle, but I don't know that brute force can win very often. At least, not at the begining.

On the VERY plus side, no more crashes or corrupted saves!!!!!!!! So far, anyway. I'll keep trying for you, tho.

Once I get used to the new mechanics, I might try the MP. Maybe. Getting pwnd by opponents a quarter my age is very bad for the ego.

pek


Reply #25 Top

The new logistics was fine, but it was sad that I wasted two slots on every asteroid if I had a trade station! A building that takes up 2 slots would be nice… like an outpost structure, which simply increases population by say 5…. Overall not very useful lol… but would be pretty.


Something would be nice, thats for sure.