What do you guys (other beta testers) think?

Some more thoughts (can't edit first post...)

Do you guys build trade ports/refineries? Have you noticed a significant difference or you just build them "just because" (same goes with upgrades)?

And regarding my first question, please, if you don't use capital ships at all (like myself), don't say that "capital ships suck" because you don't use them usually. I have had times where I built capital ship groups which were just as effective as my recent mix of cruisers and frigates.

Click the tools button on your first post, and click EDIT... Sadly now you cannot edit your second post!

n00b

Mix, all the way. Capitol ships provide a nice, heavy punch for killing stuff, and absorbing damage, but LRM / flak frigates are essential, as are hoshiko's and command cruiers, with both Kodiak's and carriers wonderful fire supports.



Between Hoshiko's and command cruisers, my shields / hulls rarely drop very far. And the carriers / heavy cruisers are VERY nice.



I tend to research fairly early on -- but, then again, I usually tend to go for a quality over quantity (Protoss Vs. Zerg? ) approach anyway. That said, the bonus is % based, making it very nice for capitol ships.



Huge bonus from trade / refinery stations. Note that the refinery stations are only useful after the "easily extracted ore" is exhausted on a given asteroid, before that they don't do you much good. That said, the trade ships can really boost your income, especially once they get going over a large star system (and / or are fully upgraded). Please note that there is a rather severe flaw in the system, wherein trade ships are intra-stellar, while refinery vessels are interstellar. Which is to say, a trade ship is stuck in the solar system it was made, while a refinery ship can leave that star for another. I don't know if this is a flaw, or "working as intended", but personally I think its a (nasty) bug.

except for armor, which is beautiful for turning your LRMs into tanks (well, not tanks, but letting them survive a tad bit longer.)

When you say that do you actually notice a difference, Ron? Try removing the Command Cruisers and see if you notice a difference. And what do the Robotics Cruisers do? I never built them before.

Armor is not percentage based and is probably a little more useful, but again, any noticeable difference between upgrading/not? Like, first-hand experience, not "I do it".

The biggest difference is that command cruisers / hoshiko's help my ships stay alive. THe Robotics cruisers heal hull, while command cruisers have a shield regen trick (only works with hull damage present, IIRC). Between the two of those, its kinda difficult for me to loose ships. I don't have any data on whether or not they improve my offensive capacity, but I have seen a (dramatic) improvement in ship survivability with command cruisers / hoshikos.

Note: This is with upgrades thrown in, so that may have an effect. E. G. the improved shield / antimatter regen and storage may be effecting my experience, as well as the upgraded armor.

I've actually never built a single hoshiko. I hate celio's (they don't give the bonuses I need) and frigates are a thing of the past (excluding seige, scout, and colnizers). I should use hoskiko's though. I just think you can get over your head if you mix up your armada TOO much.

I only go in with the best upgrades I can offer my ships. Who goes in with waste ships like light friagates and gardaks? I can't stand loosing ships. it makes me depressed   . My brute force is all kodiak cruisers, hitting high averages and rarely getting shot down if in groups. Plus their speed boosts really help in pursuing enemy fleets as they run. or getting out of the way of gauss cannon fire.

To knock away all those pesky fighters and bombers i get carriers and mass a large fighter and bomber fleet. They don't get hit by gauss (perfect for sneak attacks) and they keep my kodiaks safe.

Every offense needs a capitol ship. 1 or 2 are great, but if you want to come in guns a blazing, get 3 or 4 to really do the job. Plus it makes the battles a lot more interactive.

I looove trade and refinary ships. If you regularly use them (1 of each on every asteroid/planet) it gets you over a third of your total wealth. Although its hard to figure out how much they help, at the end of the game the stats tell all. And they are TOO helpfull when you have resource asteroids, Ron. Extra income, man. Plus you don't have to scuttle to make room for it later.

Thats interesting about how trade ships can't leave the solar system. Maybe the artifact on jumping to other stars helps? I've never had both the research and the artifact running, it seems like a waste.

Last I checked, refinery vessels refuse to dock with anything except depleted asteroids. If you've ever seen other behavior feel free to mention it.



I think I had the artifact researched on the game were I was definitively able to "prove" that (because I had 3 single-planet star systems).

I've played capital all fleets, frigate/cruiser mix fleets and frigate only fleets. Frigate only fleets can really cost you a lot in replacements.

Game is shapping up well so far. Looking forward to the balancing/multiplayer beta work.

Only serious gripes I have so far:

1. All stars should be fully interconnected by phase lanes. Right now, we have to go from star to star to star to star to star to get to target star = unplayable waste of time. Right now, the daisy chain star to star travel is a game killer since nobody has that kind of time to waste....except the unemployed (but can they afford the game?).

2. I have some modding concerns.
-I want to be able to have multiple functional planets/resources in the same gravity well.
-I want to have some kind of range of sight (fog of war) for WITHIN a gravity well.
-I want to be able to make missiles/rockets targetable by flak/point defense weapons.
-I want to be able to tie in a ships weapon accuracy/ship manueverability/ship speed/ship fire rate into how damaged the ship is (like Homeworld 2 modules allowed us to do).


That is it for now.

Personally, I kinda like the way that works out (in part). It needs fine tuning, but this way on really large maps you have a "safe" rear area behind the front lines. And since I play single player, I have plenty of time for it.

In part, the MPlayer solution is the "tournament" maps that have already been suggested, (the examples were single-system, symmetrical maps, but I'm sure the devs are working on others now that they have the general idea...) though further improvements are probably needed.

ditto, but the commands also do help with damage increase. I dont usually make my hoshiko's offensive because that would distract them from their main focus.

I usually upgrade fast (the few times I didnt I had huge problems dealing with the big unit flows the AI sends, so there is a significant difference with upgrades) and the experience is still the same: commands and hoshikos drastically increase survivability.

yeah, pain in the arse.

a whole solar system shouldnt be "safe", its already hard enough to siege one without spending a huge ammount of your ship points on a siege force.

I was reffering solely to the Cielo's there. The "offensive" power of the Hoshiko is, IMO, a joke.



I'd like to point out that its only "safe" insofar as you don't let the enemy get to it. If your opponent fails to hold the star with sufficient force to destroy your fleet before it can jump out it is possible to jump to those "rear" areas.

Jumping through 10 stars in sequence can take close to an hour = big maps would be unplayable for most of us. Ironclad really needs to allow 'any star to any star' travel (but keep the present phase lane connections for in-system).

Even if Ironclad finally allows 'any star to any star' travel, your backlines can still be reinforced long before your opponents fleet gets there....as long as you research Tier 2 Phase Lane Radar to give you a warning. The distance your defensive fleet would have to travel to reinforce a star system would be much less than your opponent.

Hehe, even if an opponent manages to get to one of your back areas first, they will still have to deal with any tactical structures you've set up at your star's gateway planets (the planets that attach to the star). There is a good chance they'll end up getting sandwiched between your tactical defenses and your pursuing fleet.

The (weapon) upgrades are a pain because they are so expensive for very little benefit early on. Their 5-10% is something like 1 point of extra damage. On the missile frigate I see a benefit because it fires something like 10 missiles per second, but on a light frigate it is almost useless.

I'm going to look into the trade port and refineries idea. I admit I've had shortages in mid-game yesterday but that could because I was steam-rolling through research or mass building frigates and cruisers.

Look if all the asteroids/planets were connected the game would completely suck. The only real defensive strategy would be shield generators surrounded by gauss and repair stations. To have an enemy come at all directions at any time would anger the S*** outta me. And who needs their ships to jump 10 planets/asteroids? If you're a responsible fleet commander you'd multitask with reinforcements trickling in while your main fleet stays close to your next objective.

Inert, light frigates are useless because their LIGHT FRIGATES. You don't charge into battle with plain infantry, you come in with heavy tanks and humvees!

If you made upgrades more than they are (kodiak goes from 17 to 23, BIG difference in my book) then the game would completely rely on research, and that makes the game lame. They have a great system of percentage upgrades. It makes the suttle differences in firepower and hull capacity win battles.

Also, paradoxnt, THIS GAME ISIN"T BASED OFF WHO HAS BETTER RESEARCH. ITS BASED ON WHO CAN WIN BATTLES AND KEEP YOUR ECOMONY UP. You're making that PSDAR radar technology completely nessicery. It makes the gamer feel boxed up if you just tell him "you NEED this to survive, so stop your plans and get it.".

shib, i believe they were talking about star to star connections, not any planet to any planet...

Also, you DO fight with infantry because they are so flexible, I think that light frigates should be upgradeable during the game, allowing them to be useful throughout.

also, research isnt extremely useful immediately, but EVERY SINGLE SHIP that you have or you build afterwards, is better. It evens out.

There are several research topics for this It was also important to us that these ships had a function the entire game.

correct, if I recall, the smaller frigates get some anti-mater technology that is beneficial in some way....

// that was really vague

they take antimatter away from cap-ships i think it was.
so a big group could take away the special abillities, then they would only have to fight a big, heavily defened, and heavily armed ship...
yeah, i would just run personally.  

well, it makes sense if they are covered by their capships, but infantry are pretty much the ultimate multi-role weapon IF used correctly. I think that the weaker frigates should be the same. They should be weak early, but can become a real support arm lategame if used correctly.

Hi Shibfilet, no need to get upset. In my earlier post, I was talking about star to star travel(outer-system), NOT planet/asteroid to planet/asteroid travel (inner-system). My point is that it takes way too long to travel from star to star in series.

For example, if you are at star (A) and want to get to star (E), right now you would have to go to stars (B), (C), and (D) first. What I was proposing was that we be allowed to directly travel from ANY star to ANY other star. So using the above example, we would simply go directly from star (A) to star (E).

Please note that I am not asking for any changes in the present inner system phase lane 'spider web' setup...although I do hope for MODDING purposes we are allowed to have multiple functioning planets in the same gravity well.

As for your argument that SoaSE research should only focus on tactical and economic benefits, I would have to disagree. Strategic research (things like radar, insurgents, cultural influence, and so on) should continue to play a large part in the game. I don't think the developers are going to remove these game concepts any time soon.

thats why you aren't allowed to wear MAN pants

neither are you...

no... its only "safe" insofar as you aren't an idiot enough to let your enemy get a foothold in your solar system, it doesnt matter if hes in as long as he doesnt constantly get reinforcements.

such thinking is bad, tsk tsk.

first of all the bonuses are persistant, second those few damage points drive a massive snowball effect that allows even a small force to bowl through a much larger one, if you havent realized this you are in for a beating when the game hits multiplayer.

go back and reread what he's saying.

they aren't fodder... they provide a huge mass of your attack power, so long as you are constantly replacing them

amen to that shibbs.

its nescessary only if you want to know how your enemy is manuvering, why do you think its so high on the list? its almost completely vital for even the greatest of RTSers

with full armor and laser upgrades these things are monstrosities, they become cheap heavy hitters that can take a pounding, early on they provide 90-95% of your firepower.

in group they can shred cap ships with ease...

IMO there should be an entirely different branch of research specifically for strategic and intelligence based techs.

*stands proud*
a man needs to know how to use his light assault.

note: somethings screwey with the quote system...

yah, i had some bugs quoting too