Gameplay more RTS or 4X?

from Sins Forums
I'm a bit curious about the actual gameplay, not the advertised gameplay in the FAQ and marketing pages, but the actual pacing of the game?

I like the concept of RTS games, but they generally are build as fast as you can so you can overrun your enemy, or they overrun you. (Rush stragey I believe?) Neddless to say, I tend to stink big time at these games because I'm a bit more methodical in my thinking, or at least I try to be.

I also like the concept of 4X game, similiar to Galactic Civilizations II, but the whole turn based thing just eludes me. I never know what to do from turn to turn, so never get very deep into them.

SO now I read about this new genre being created the RT4X... Interesting, but what does this actually mean? Again, not from the dev interviews or the FAQ about what it should be like, but from the payers who've actually had a chance to play the beta?

Is this truly what I hope it is? Start out in a system, build up my forces at my own pace, and build myself an empire? Slowly head out to take over the universe? Is this possible, or will I merely be rushed into building whatever I can and defending against an overwhelming force?

Thanx...
42,572 views 21 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
I can see where you are coming from (I don't really like rushing in RTS games, thats why I like EaW). Technically, you can expand as slowly as you want, but your enemy may not let you servive long. If you really wanna know what its like, a user called Multianna has 6 gameplay videos.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?forumid=402&aid=148534#1193612
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Atm its like what you say here
Start out in a system, build up my forces at my own pace, and build myself an empire? Slowly head out to take over the universe?


But the AI might try and rush you abit to beging with, but im sure you be able to handle it

You should watch some of the gameplay videos some of made
Made by me or my original thread
The high quality vids are down atm, but ill make sure they will be up very soon
Some of youtube

But ill recommend watching the once i made. Since they will show you from the start of the game

cheers
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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
aah you beat me to it Thrawn2787
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
I did start to watch some of the videos, was unable to download them to view at my leisure, and since the connection here at work is kinda crappy, couldn't get into them too easily. Plus, there's all sorts of clicking going on, but since I'm not familiar at all with the UI, couldn't tell what those clicks represented.

I'll try to take another gander when I get home tonite...
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
the high quality once are working now, you will have to get them at my gameplay thread
cheers
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I'm a bit curious about the actual gameplay, not the advertised gameplay in the FAQ and marketing pages, but the actual pacing of the game?



I like the concept of RTS games, but they generally are build as fast as you can so you can overrun your enemy, or they overrun you. (Rush stragey I believe?) Neddless to say, I tend to stink big time at these games because I'm a bit more methodical in my thinking, or at least I try to be.



I also like the concept of 4X game, similiar to Galactic Civilizations II, but the whole turn based thing just eludes me. I never know what to do from turn to turn, so never get very deep into them.



SO now I read about this new genre being created the RT4X... Interesting, but what does this actually mean? Again, not from the dev interviews or the FAQ about what it should be like, but from the payers who've actually had a chance to play the beta?



Is this truly what I hope it is? Start out in a system, build up my forces at my own pace, and build myself an empire? Slowly head out to take over the universe? Is this possible, or will I merely be rushed into building whatever I can and defending against an overwhelming force?



Thanx...


Mostly plays as a rts right now ... the little research in the game is only slightly larger then some rts's, the phase lane system makes the big "universe" feel very limited and gives you the feeling your running over bridges from island to island.

Ofcourse, its still beta... so who knows.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Mostly plays as a rts right now ... the little research in the game is only slightly larger then some rts's, the phase lane system makes the big "universe" feel very limited and gives you the feeling your running over bridges from island to island.

AFAIK RTS games have NO research. You can only upgrade buildings depending on other built buildings.

The lane system (which I also would don't like fully) is implemented to prevent the "anything can be attacked" and create strategic chokepoints. So gameplay reasons.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Most RTS games have techs. Infact, the only rts games I have played that don't have techs are C&C Red Alert 2. C&C Generals has techs. Starcraft, Warcraft (I believe, never actually played that one), hell, even that old starwars rts has techs. Homeword 2 at least has techs, not sure about the first one. TBH I haven't played very many other rts games, but most of the rts games I have played have techs, and the only difference between those and sins is sins has a few extra and condenses them into one tech page rather than making you go to each individual building to research them.

The phase lane system makes sense from a gameplay perspective, although I'm sure there are other ways to achieve the same effect that fit in better with sins, however, they would most likely be more complicated, and as IC has stated in other posts, they are trying to streamline the game to make less complicated so the average gamer who doesn't know what RTS stands for can pick up and play.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
rather than making you go to each individual building to research them.

Yes, i remember now! Sorry, it's been a looong while since I was even somewhat interested in RTS...

The phase lane system makes sense from a gameplay perspective, although I'm sure there are other ways to achieve the same effect that fit in better with sins, however, they would most likely be more complicated, and as IC has stated in other posts, they are trying to streamline the game to make less complicated so the average gamer who doesn't know what RTS stands for can pick up and play.

I agree. We presented quite a few ideas about how to get rid of them (for instance: that the jump would consume AM and this would also limit the range, thus preventing "behind the enemy lines" jumps going too deep etc.). Sadly this seems set. My previous response wasn't non-agreement but a devs perspective as I understand it.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
I didn't play the beta but I think I can give you a pointer to wether it's more RTS or 4X:
What sets sins apart from most typical RTS games is that the unit AI is smart enough to lead battles without you. Your job is to manage your faction and put the right units in the right place at the right time. After that the units will start battling it out by themselves.
That means you don't have to give individual units commands. You can, but they'll handle themselves. You do the strategy, the unit AI can do the tactics.

This is similar to other 4X games like GalCiv. Surely, you can be 'rushed' if you're not quick enough. Just in the same way as in GalCiv ('Colo-rush'). But wether you progress quickly depends mostly on how much thought you spend on your strategy. It's not about the seconds you can be quicker by clicking faster, but the minutes you save yourself by building and expanding in a smart way.

That is my impression of what I read about the game in these forums. It'd be nice if someone who played it showed his thumb up or thumb down to it.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

I didn't play the beta but I think I can give you a pointer to wether it's more RTS or 4X:
What sets sins apart from most typical RTS games is that the unit AI is smart enough to lead battles without you. Your job is to manage your faction and put the right units in the right place at the right time. After that the units will start battling it out by themselves.
That means you don't have to give individual units commands. You can, but they'll handle themselves. You do the strategy, the unit AI can do the tactics.

This is similar to other 4X games like GalCiv. Surely, you can be 'rushed' if you're not quick enough. Just in the same way as in GalCiv ('Colo-rush'). But wether you progress quickly depends mostly on how much thought you spend on your strategy. It's not about the seconds you can be quicker by clicking faster, but the minutes you save yourself by building and expanding in a smart way.

That is my impression of what I read about the game in these forums. It'd be nice if someone who played it showed his thumb up or thumb down to it.


Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
its certainly more 4x than RTS. at this point getting into battles and microing them has really little point, all that matters is that you move your fleets around and protect your assets.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
What sets sins apart from most typical RTS games is that the unit AI is smart enough to lead battles without you. Your job is to manage your faction and put the right units in the right place at the right time.


More like getting a large enough mass of units in the right place at the right time.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
Seems more to me like it's almost all RTS, but I'm not complaining because it's just beta 1. I really won't start complaining till gameplay balance comes out, because that's what I enjoy in betas. Technical stage doesn't have varied enough gameplay and is too much start, error, freeze, crash, start, error, freeze, crash, etc. I'm not here to have fun perse (although I always hope) , but when I do the same thing over and over, and have to keep starting over, I lose interest in anything very quickly.

And schem, I take it you rely on superiority in numbers to win? I usually have a fleet that matches my opponents main fleet in numbers, and wouldn't win without microing, because so far the unit AI is no better than HW2 AI and can't focus fire nor use special abilities wisely enough to just macro like you claim to do.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
And schem, I take it you rely on superiority in numbers to win? I usually have a fleet that matches my opponents main fleet in numbers, and wouldn't win without microing, because so far the unit AI is no better than HW2 AI and can't focus fire nor use special abilities wisely enough to just macro like you claim to do.

not nescessarily superiority in numbers, but microing has little effect on gameplay. I find that matching my enemy for composition and economic/military build up is far more effective in wiping them out than chosing which ship to attack.
the idea of a 'controlled' chaos theory buildup is nice, but controlling from the bottom up is usually better than working from the top down.

the AI doesnt nescessarily need to kill the right ships first/faster. all that matters is that my fleet is superior, in the end you can put a lot of effort into wittling down one of your enemies fleets, or you can rev your massive military-industrial complex and plow through all their planets, I've done both, I know which one is more effective for me.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Anyway back on topic, as it stands right now it is more RTS just on a larger scale than most of us are used to. To me personally what makes something epic is everything that happens outside of combat, like research, how you handle empire build-up things like that.

The research tree is a little on the small side for an epic game and the empire build up does not allow for many choices. I am putting my money on the fact that the game is only in beta 1 and that is the reason for these things. As it progresses Ironclad/Stardock will let us in on more of there secrets.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
Exactly. To me, 4X is about empire building, not war. However, war is required, because it is a part of empire building, and a test of your empire building skills. In this game, it's basically (as of beta 1 mind you) whoever can out perform others militarily, and has nothing to do with real empire building. You colonize a planet, upgrade the planet, research techs, and churn out units. This is Starcraft in a nutshell as well, if you change the word planet to base.

But again, I'm still holding my breath, as this is only beta 1. Looking forward to next month to exhale.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
I've finally taken the time and wathed in-game movies made by Multianna.

Ehm, it all happens SO FAST! Travelling, research... everything is so fast it is definitely more RTS than 4X... I know it's a beta but I really hope this will change.
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

I've finally taken the time and wathed in-game movies made by Multianna.

Ehm, it all happens SO FAST! Travelling, research... everything is so fast it is definitely more RTS than 4X... I know it's a beta but I really hope this will change.


Dito - its nothing like a 4x/rts hybrid game right now... Its like a RTS with a limited map right now that makes you hop over from one planet to another. The patch notes at this stage show they are also concentrating on the RTS part more then ever, nothing about new research, development of the empire (planets)...

Still, beta just started & alot might still change. I hope it does...
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
its not as quick as you expect, the game cycles in a very bust-boom fashion. unless you have a massive and agile force you boom until you reach other players, then there is a bust period as you duke it out, then you sit around until the border stabalizes or you beat him into a pulp and then you "boom" outwards again.
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
its not as quick as you expect, the game cycles in a very bust-boom fashion. unless you have a massive and agile force you boom until you reach other players, then there is a bust period as you duke it out, then you sit around until the border stabalizes or you beat him into a pulp and then you "boom" outwards again.

So there is no time and no point to think at all... No real strategy. Clicking faster means a lot in these circumstances and that was exactly what Sins "promised" not to happen. It feels like Warcraft and I know I can never beat anybody online at Warcraft. Thankfully.