Grave Concerns

from Sins Forums
It appears from what Yarlen has said in the Beta Update page, that until Beta 2 their won't be patching or updating of the SOASE Beta.

The goal of this thread is for people to voice this opinion of this issue, In my mind the idea of stopping the process of updating the beta client until Beta 2 is game design suicide.

Open question to Ironclad staff: Do you really think that when Beta 2 launches their won't be stability or compatibility issues that will need fixing?

If this Beta is designed for stability and compatibility testing and tweaking how do you expect to do that with out feeding us more code, or allowing more people access to the beta?

I have participated in many betas, as I am certain many on here have. Not ever beta process is the same, but usually they follow a certain flow if you will. When more an more code is added to the beta client it requires small compatibility and stability fixes. Its a gradual process. But when you decide to wait however long it will be until Beta 2 and dump a hell of a lot more code on to the Beta client you better expect numerous compatibility and stability issues that will need immediate addressing.

Just because what we have of the TEC and Client works, doesn't mean everything else will. And if Beta 2 still wants to remain multiplayer testing(Am I correct in definition of Beta 2?) then you need to update our clients on a regular basis.

I don't mean to piss you guys off, but I paid to get access to this Beta. Just like everyone else. You want our opinions, or at least thats what you said. And me and Sentient now agree on something, the idea of stopping the patching or update process completely until Beta 2 is a grave mistake.

I now leave this thread open for discussion between all members of this board.
41,689 views 19 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
For what it's worth, I have only managed to finish 1 game before it reached a point where it would crash every time I loaded it up again.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
For the main purpose of this Beta 1, what kind of statistics has IC collected thus far? There hasn't been too many bugs reported to date and I haven't seen any performance threads pop-up (other than the one I posted that has since fizzled). Out of the total number of paying testers, did IC get all the info they wanted? I'd venture to guess 85% of the "feedback" IC has gotten back has been gameplay and barely any performance data (unless they are secretly gathering data while we play...hehe).

I for one plan on posting my systems performance, once I have tested it a little bit more. Right now, I can safely say a mid-level system can't handle a game (of the size I have going now) at 1600 x 1200 full settings (2xAA), normal AI with 5 factions playing. It's a lag-fest trying to play a giant battle. It ran smooth as butter in the beginning however. What I want to know is how much more "optimization" the game will get before final release?
Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Its not that wedge, its just by the time Beta 2 hits their are most likely going to be more people gaining access. And in my experience in software Betas. Whenever the developer allows either more people to join or dumps a significant amount of data onto the client. Shit hits the fan!

Their will be compatibility and stability issues when they dump more code that alters the Beta client significantly. Even if they release a new client. Their will be consumers who payed to participate in a Beta who are going to have issues, and they will be pissed. And their flat ask what going on during Beta 1, where the whole point was to test the stability and compatibility of the client. And to be honest stability testing and compatibility testing are not done until the final code is on shelves, and even after that.

Look at Supreme Commander, C&C 3, SWOTS, Space Empires 5, etc... They all release patches for the final to fix stability and compatibility issues. And with new drivers coming out day after day for hardware optimization for Vista, what do they expect. I want this game to do well, first strategy game that actually sparks my interest. They can fix all the errors in house they want, but unless its confirmed on our clients, our PC's. Its utterly pointless.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top


Right now, I can safely say a mid-level system can't handle a game (of the size I have going now) at 1600 x 1200 full settings (2xAA), normal AI with 5 factions playing. It's a lag-fest trying to play a giant battle. It ran smooth as butter in the beginning however. What I want to know is how much more "optimization" the game will get before final release?



Thats what I am talking about Slimpinto, what do you expect is going to happen when they add another 100+ mb's of data, Smooth as butter? You never stop updating your beta testers clients, I thought that was common knowledge.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Clearly my statement was looked at not as I intended.

Allow me to rephrase:  There may be more updates before Beta 2, but you guys should not expect them daily or even weekly (like before). They will be issued as Ironclad needs stuff tested. 

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Thats cool, just was a little worried for a second. Just don't want the game to go the way of Space Empires 5...
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Great. I was really worried as well. It simply did not seem logical to just stop everything after all the time and effort invested into this phase. Moreover it is inconsistent with best practices.

I secretly started to think maybe we are pushing for something that you guys don't really want to make for whatever reasons and decided to put a stop to it by stonewalling the community for a month or so in the hopes we would go away or eventually see the light as it were.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
And the world continues to spin once again....
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
And the world continues to spin once again....


ROFL...
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Yarlen pretty much summed it up - we'll release patches as we need stuff tested but I'd like to add a bit of additional info to help explain how things are operating. 

We are always compiling, organizing and prioritizing all the comments on the forums with special attention going to the comments from those who of you who have pre-ordered and/or played the beta. As expected, when the beta first launched, there were a whole lot of little technical issues that we needed to fix right away in order to get 99% of you up and running. At the same time there were some valid UI issues that happened to be relatively easy to add into the patches so we did. These issues didn't take much time so we released 3 patches in very short order.

Now that those are out of the way we had to switch into a whole different mode to deal with the really nasty technical issues that compose the remaining 1% and the really big gameplay concerns that won't already solved by pieces of the puzzle you guys don't have access to. The difference with these issues is they take a lot of time so its impossible to release frequent patches.

By no means would we ever stonewall the community or ignore what you each of you have to say. Infact it is just the opposite. There has been a host of valid criticisms and good ideas that we really agreed with and we got to work on as soon as possible. The only problem is a lot of these things take a lot of time so that means less frequent patches.

It may take a bit but we can't wait to have you all test out the next batch of stuff

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
And the world continues to spin once again....


Its good to have someone like kosc arround. Otherwise this forum would be too serious(off-topic section asside)
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

We definitely want (and need) your opinions. We were happy to release 3 patches already - all from excellent forum feedback! Larger beta changes can take considerable time - not always something that can be put up on the fly. We are not holding back or ignoring anyone - we are just working hard to process, evaluate, and implement the tremendous load of new ideas that our beta testers provided. Thanks everyone  

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
@Blair - the stonewall comment was really meant as a light hearted joke. If you guys took it otherwise you have my apology.

@TGE - I happen to really like "business" oriented forums, especially for something as important as a beta test. I guess it it because when I try to make a joke it always comes across as a serious comment. But hey I have tried to make light hearted comments in recent posts although I'm not sure sure they came across as intended (see above - smilies and all).

Now on a more serious line of thought...

Regarding the current testing process, there was a thread about system specks and performance rating and I was wondering if it is going to be followed up on or do you guys think it is a moot issue at the moment? Because if it is I suggest grouping the testers into classes and having them run predefined (read as controlled) games. This is so a base line can be established and referenced as the process develops. I would even consider further sub divide the groups into faction teams for more refined data points. It would also help isolate any unique issues that may arise with each faction and its specific tech and what not.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
@Blair - the stonewall comment was really meant as a light hearted joke. If you guys took it otherwise you have my apology.

@TGE - I happen to really like "business" oriented forums, especially for something as important as a beta test. I guess it it because when I try to make a joke it always comes across as a serious comment. But hey I have tried to make light hearted comments in recent posts although I'm not sure sure they came across as intended (see above - smilies and all).

Now on a more serious line of thought...

Regarding the current testing process, there was a thread about system specks and performance rating and I was wondering if it is going to be followed up on or do you guys think it is a moot issue at the moment? Because if it is I suggest grouping the testers into classes and having them run predefined (read as controlled) games. This is so a base line can be established and referenced as the process develops. I would even consider further sub divide the groups into faction teams for more refined data points. It would also help isolate any unique issues that may arise with each faction and its specific tech and what not.


I agree with Mr. Sparty Uno (*wink), what an awsome idea (slim wishes he thought it up first, hehe)!

I run into the "taken out of context" and/or tone of a comment a lot, seems that facial expressions/vocalizatons are really important after all! LOL! It's hard to "text" feelings and moods...group hug everybody!

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

And the world continues to spin once again....


Its good to have someone like kosc around. Otherwise this forum would be too serious(off-topic section asside)


I try...
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
Concerning performance issues, is it planned to have benchmarks in the beta client that generates performance/bug reports? I'm thinking about some kind of test framework that could be run on testers machines to gather data. Maybe that's already implemented, I don't have access to the beta yet.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
Aaah good, news from the devs
was also afraid it would become like lots of other games, where the devs doesnt listen.



And the world continues to spin once again....


Its good to have someone like kosc around. Otherwise this forum would be too serious(off-topic section asside)


I try...

yeah, every scifi forum needs a kosc

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Sadly even a kosc on the Bethsada Star Trek Legacy forums could not improve moral or add any humor... Talk about a game where the developers took the money and ran away... Leaving a really messed up game...
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
But i liked the story... well now they just have to release the missing parts... *dreaming*