Congrats For What?

Puzzled by 5th grade "graduation"

from JoeUser Forums

Our particular elementary school is K-5.  It seems to be an arbitrary process in deciding how many grades constitute school grades since some are K-4, 5-8, 9-12 or other forms of elementary, middle, Jr High and high school departmentalization.  Our elementary just happens to end at 5th grade.  They also happen to have a 5th grade "graduation".

I was always under the impression that graduation was a celebration of achievement and of transition from child to adult.  What have you achieved by 5th grade?  What are you transitioning to?  I think going from a kindergartner to a 1st grader is a bigger transition in many ways.

I guess I see this kind of "graduation" as belittling the significance of high school or college graduation.  You have no choice but to graduate from 5th grade.  You can choose to drop out of high school or college.  I understand feeling like going from elementary to middle school is a big step.  It can't compare to finishing high school or college though.  I am just concerned about giving kids a sense of achievement when they really haven't achieved anything. 

To me it is just another part of how our kids are given too much too soon these days.  Homecoming is as extravagent as my prom was.  Prom is as big of an event as weddings used to be.  Where do you go from there?  You've done the limo, the hugely expensive dress, gotten hair and makeup done, what's left?

So forgive me if I don't congratulate any of the 5th graders.  I don't see anything to congratulate them for.  Hey, you survived kindergarten through 5th grade.  Now you get seven more years of pretty much the same.  Congratulations!  No, I'll reserve my congratulations for when they complete school and are planning what will come next.

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Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
Orian had a Kindergarten "ceremony" (where we had to listen to a teacher declare that our children would not know how to read or write or count or form a line if it weren't for the school).

We did buy him a lei to wear for that day (and the little sweetie gave it to his teacher!) because it's tradition to give a lei for pretty much any special occasion. But we didn't buy him a gift or a card or balloons or call him "graduate" as we saw many parents doing with their Kindergarteners (usually parents where the K student was their oldest).

I'm proud that both my boys were promoted to the next grade, but I really agree with you about celebrating the hell out of the commonplace.

Kids are learning to expect to be rewarded for doing things that are REQUIRED of them, and then there's always the pressure to do things bigger and better each time so that the rewards are extravagant and meaningless. These kids will spend their lives unimpressed and nonplussed because they've seen and done and been given everything already.

It's very sad.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
These kids will spend their lives unimpressed and nonplussed because they've seen and done and been given everything already.

It's very sad.


Exactly!
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Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top
we didn't buy him a gift or a card or balloons or call him "graduate" as we saw many parents doing with their Kindergarteners (usually parents where the K student was their oldest).


Alex had the same thing for preschool but we went of vacation and totally bypassed Alex's and for Ryan's we went, heard them sing a cute song, had cookies and punch and left. We saw and heard parents doing the same thing you described with their "graduates". I just don't get it.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
You have no choice but to graduate from 5th grade.


I guess that depends on the school.. or rather the student body.

My wife and I just went to a "Middle School Graduation" for the inner city (Milwaukee) school where she did her student teaching. Out of the 25 kids in the Math Class she taught, 9 weren't graduating due to low grades. In Milwaukee Public Schools, only about 45% of the kids who start High School actually graduate. There was a definite sense of achievement in their eyes. I looked at them kind of sad though, knowing that this was probably the only graduation many of them would ever see.
Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top
Out of the 25 kids in the Math Class she taught, 9 weren't graduating due to low grades.


They didn't graduate that year maybe but it isn't as though they can simply quit school and never graduate the 5th grade, right?

In Milwaukee Public Schools, only about 45% of the kids who start High School actually graduate.


Then those 45% achieved something and the rest didn't. There should be no kudos for simply making it to high school. That just perpetuates the problem.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

Let me first preface that I have no problem with families in which both parents work full time. I am not passing judgment on that.

However, almost universally the people who laud all this ridiculous fake achievement stuff are parents who both work full time.  I won't suggest why this is the case but it is very consistent.

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
The way I see it ( I think that is what Ted is saying), is that those students in schools that are abysmal, have something to celebrate. Some of those students may not even graduate high school, or even middle school.

That's my take on it.

~L
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top
They didn't graduate that year maybe but it isn't as though they can simply quit school and never graduate the 5th grade, right?


Statistically, out of the 9, 3 probably won't show up to summer school and won't be back next fall either.

Then those 45% achieved something and the rest didn't. There should be no kudos for simply making it to high school. That just perpetuates the problem.


Actually, I agree with you here. However, in MPS making it to high school IS an accomplishment. Not because the standards are set so high only the elite will make it... but because the expectation is so low.

When my wife was student teaching there, she was constantly told not to challenge the kids academically, it only discourages them and makes them quit school all together.
Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
buy him a gift or a card or balloons or call him "graduate" as we saw many parents doing with their Kindergarteners (usually parents where the K student was their oldest).


Hmmm...I kinda wonder if I'm going to be one of those overly-ecstatic parents. I mean heck, every little thing about one's first child is just so freaking CUTE! I've seen some kindergarten graduations where they actually dress the kids in little caps & gowns. I think my husband had such a ceremony when he "graduated" kindergarten.

Aww but this is about 5th grade graduation. Yes that seems a bit much. I guess I can kinda see where they're coming from since they'll technically be moving on to a different school building for the sixth grade...but perhaps an informal party to bid "farewell to our grade school building" would be more suitable than a formal graduation ceremony.
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

You have no choice but to graduate from 5th grade.

Except Jethro Bodine.

Yea, they have 'graduation' here as well.  Same grade system as you  (k-5, 6-8, 9-12).  And even Kindergarten graduation.  I think it is a bunch of baloney.  Oh, I make a deal about going to a new school.  Because Jr. high is very different from Elementary, and HS is very different from Jr. High.  But no graduation presents.  Just a big congratulations, and now the real fun begins outing.

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top
I went to a little private pre-k day care type thing for kindergarten because my mom worked there. We had a "graduation" ceremony, but it was a lot of fun because we made caps in arts and crafts time and we got a little diploma saying we were done with kindergarten, and I think it was that way because after kindergarten, we were done at that school.

My public school was elementary k-4, middle 5-8, and high school 9-12. I remember having an assembly in 4th grade as we prepared for middle school, and maybe we ate some food, but there was no graduation ceremony. In eight grade we had a promotion night where we got a certificate saying we were done with middle school and there was a cute slide show, but again, no graduation ceremony.

At all of these things no one got presents or anything, people saved it for huge high school graduation parities. Those were a big deal, and I made a lot of money at mine ;). The ceremonies we had when I was younger were more of a "good job so far, keep up the good work" type of a thing.
Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top
My children had kindergarden graduations with the program and it was a fun way to end the year. Their kindergarden teachers seem to have been the ones who influenced them the most in their education.
There is a grade 8 graduation and they've been around for a number of years. They have gotten bigger and costlier. Guys buy suits and girls get prom like gowns that cost alot. It has gotten quite out of hand. The girls get manicures and their hair and makeup done. They wear the same dress the next day at school for the whole school awards ceremony. I don't know what happened to playing the last day of school.

I do wonder why children get gifts for passing their grade when really in most instances the school will not fail a student and it is something that is to be expected from our children anyway.
Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top
Guys buy suits and girls get prom like gowns that cost alot. It has gotten quite out of hand. The girls get manicures and their hair and makeup done.


Why? I get getting dressed up, but to that extent? That doesn't make sense at all. They still have 4 years of school to get through!
Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't see a problem with the "cute" graduation from pre-pre-school (aka my niece), but I would say the celibration should amount to what the occasion is worth. For instance the graduation of High School, and then College should be much more significant than that celibration.

Of course kids are getting too much too soon, but then again they are becoming the generation that raises themselves as the me-generation parents go out to the workforce. You have two working parents and no one supervising the children, the expectation of 10 year olds to take care of themselves and make dinner for mommy and daddy when they are home from work, while keeping an eye on her younger siblings becomes the norm in soicety.
Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

Of course kids are getting too much too soon, but then again they are becoming the generation that raises themselves as the me-generation parents go out to the workforce. You have two working parents and no one supervising the children, the expectation of 10 year olds to take care of themselves and make dinner for mommy and daddy when they are home from work, while keeping an eye on her younger siblings becomes the norm in soicety.
That certainly isn't the norm around here.  Where are you getting your info and that being the norm?  Even if it were the norm, kids have been having to make dinners, do house work and look out for siblings for as long as there have been families.  Look at farm families.

We aren't doing kids any favors by giving them everything and anything.  Too much too soon is merely destroying their inclination to work toward anything or earn anything on their own.  A 5th grade "graduation" isn't earned even if you are in an inner city.  It is just a lowered expectation.  Bad idea.

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top
True, perhaps it is de-valuing a high school graduation, but I think this has more to do with ritual than academic achievement. Perhaps it signifies the higher expectations waiting for them in middle and high schools. I think a ceremony of this nature is appropriate when the child is leaving one school for the next. It provides a sense of personal history for the student. I don't think anyone is sincerely comparing a 5th grade graduation to high school or college. If they are, then perhaps they are only 5th grade graduates themselves.

To me, your post sounds as dispassionate as saying, "well, what are all these high school and college students getting so excited for? After all, they haven't completed their post-baccalaureate studies yet. Anyone can make it through college these days."

I don't think there's anything wrong with a little ceremony and ritual for ten-year-olds. Congrats to them!
Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top
To me, your post sounds as dispassionate as saying, "well, what are all these high school and college students getting so excited for? After all, they haven't completed their post-baccalaureate studies yet. Anyone can make it through college these days."


You totally missed the point then. I already stated, if you graduated from high school, you did something on your own. You could have dropped out. You can't just drop out from 4th grade and decide not to "graduate" from 5th. You don't have a choice. And I have never eluded to the thought that "Anyone can make it through college these days." Quite the contrary. I have no idea where you got that attitude toward me.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a little ceremony and ritual for ten-year-olds. Congrats to them!


You have the right to that opinion. I have the right to disagree. I don't see anything wrong with acknowledging that it is going to be different going from elementary to middle school. I don't think we are doing them any favors by making it seem like some big accomplishment though.

I think this has more to do with ritual than academic achievement.


What is the basis of the ritual then? These outrageous Sweet Sixteen parties seem to be a new ritual too and I think they are horrible also.
Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top
I dunno...I have the same problem with congratulating a woman for getting pregnant! Congratulate her for HAVING the baby, certainly; we don't do NEAR enough of THAT! But, congratulating her for the act of GETTING pregnant is like celebrating KINDERGARTEN graduation...after all that time of milk and cookies, the REAL work lies ahead!

Sorry! I KNOW I'm gonna get blasted for THAT one...especially since the author happens to be in such a state at the time! But I hope she'll understand my comment was partially tongue in cheek!
Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top
Gid I congratulate couples on getting pregnant because I believe pregnancy is a blessing. Not everyone who wants to get pregnant can...and I think it is often taken for granted. Basically I am saying, "Congratulations on your blessing....and the soon to be new addition to the family."

As for graduating 5th grade. Just passing and getting out of elementary was reward enough for me! heh.

I have problems with rewarding expected behavior in my kids though. I expect them to be honest for example. I am not going to let them off easy for telling me they broke a family rule.

And rewarding mediocrity is one of my pet peeves...but the line blurs sometimes when it comes to kids. My youngest is speech delayed....about 8 months...so when he says a word other kids his age have been saying for a year...well I reward him with hugs and praise.

I get looks from other parents sometimes in public like big whoop he said "I" instead of "me." Why the heck are you so proud? hahahahaha.

But I don't care....and I know that wasn't the gist of your article...just got off on a tangent there.
Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top
I totally understand what you are saying Tova and agree with all of it.

Gid, your comment I will let be since you explained it was partially in jest. I'll say this, if the person who got pregnant "accidentally" got pregnant, I would congratulate them. If the person had been planning the pregnancy, I would. If I had had fertility problems, I would take great offense to your comment. Luckily, I have a feel for you as a person and know that you meant no ill will with your comment. You also acknowledged the dangerous line you were treading