dharmagrl

Join Date 02/2004

His job has nothing to do with my political opinion

Or any other opinion, for that matter.

Sadder still is the wife of an active duty serviceman, who made the following comments on my sister site:

"I think that keeping your family together should be your first priority, and your constitutional rights should take a back seat to that."

"What good is defending your constitutional rights going to serve if DSS take your kids away?"

The fact that the wife of a servicemember who is fighting to defend the Constitution. What good is the Constitution if we throw away our rights voluntarily?

What, exactly, does my husband's job have to do with my opinion?

I'll tell you what: nothing. Not a damn thing. It only has anything to do with it now because it suits your purpose. Makes for good reading doesn't it? That you can say how 'sad' it is that I have such 'clear contempt' for that which my husband is 'fighting' for?

How dare you. How dare you insinuate that I have no respect for the US constitution. How dare you. I'm so furious right now I'm shaking, and he's not too happy either.

You can politicize your circumstance all you want to. You can say that I have 'clear contempt' for your beloved constitution all you want to. Think of me what you want.....but don't bring his service into it. Don't say that you find my opinion 'sad', and 'sadder' because of his job.

And you had the nerve to tell me 'for someone who supposedly supports us...'. Yeah, whatever. You have no idea.

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who you are has not a damn thing to do with who hubby is let alone what he does.

do not know who said that to you {do not wanna know either}

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Earlier this week I made a note to write an article about this rights thing, the gist of it being...

There's a difference between choosing not to exercise a right and throwing that right away.

It's also not a violation of said right to ask if you'll not exercise it in a particular instance. Even "demanding" isn't a violation. Till they actually search and seize without a warrant, rights haven't been violated. That's the real reason the ACLU and non-Fringe nutjob media won't touch the story. Yet.

It's also sad that some people don't realize that their way to fight something isn't the only way to fight it, and that other battle plans might be equally effective or *GASP* more effective, especially in the long run.

But that's all I'm gonna say about that, because it has been made perfectly clear that any opinion not in lockstep isn't welcome or respected.

(And taking the cutting remarks and snide insinuation to another blog site, especially when the "sister site" is linked and anyone can easily cross over and see who you are talking about is bad form, petty, out of line, and contemptuous.)

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But that's all I'm gonna say about that, because it has been made perfectly clear that any opinion not in lockstep isn't welcome or respected.

Thank you, Gene. I see the same thing.

who you are has not a damn thing to do with who hubby is let alone what he does.

do not know who said that to you {do not wanna know either}

Thanks, MM, and I'm not going to ask you to take sides so I won't tell you who it is.

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3 by dharmagrl
Sunday, October 09, 2005

Thanks, MM, and I'm not going to ask you to take sides so I won't tell you who it is.

thanx D, I make enough war all by myself. heh

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Just as a side note:
I really thought about deleting this article last night. I wondered of perhaps I was over-reacting, if I should go and re-read when my mind wasn't clouded by anger. So, I did...and after reviewing everything that was said and a timeline of the events, I've decided to let this article stand.

Also, I've thought about why these comments piss me off so much. It's mainly about the insinuation that I'm letting my husband down somehow...but there's also some disdain that I was being talked about, my quotes were being used and I wasn't given the courtesy of a heads up so that I could go speak in my own defence. If it had been someone I had a history of hatred with, I could understand it. But this is someone who I have helped in the past and who I thought was 'friendly'. Just last week we were emailing each other and my husband and I were talking about what we could do to help this person. I think that's what stings more than anything.

I also meant to say that Gene is completely right about the reasons the ACLU et al won't touch this case - because in order for them to litigate, there has to have been a violation of someone's rights. As yet, there has been no violation, and until there is, no-one is going to want to assist.
If they'd barged in, searched the home and then removed the kids despite being told that they were doing so in violation of the homeowners/renters constitutional rights, THEN the ACLU might consider coming to a person's defence. Until that happens, though.....they're going to be unable to assist.

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Reply By: dharmagrlPosted: Sunday, October 09, 2005Just as a side note:I really thought about deleting this article last night. I wondered of perhaps I was over-reacting, if I should go and re-read when my mind wasn't clouded by anger. So, I did...and after reviewing everything that was said and a timeline of the events, I've decided to let this article stand.

reviewing your thoughts anger free is always a good Idea, I have deleted more than one article or comment because in the light of day I could see where I was out of line or just plain wrong.

I see nothing wrong with expressing how you FEEL,But I always keep in mind that here we cannot get inflection of words and sometimes we misread something as simple as a difference in opinion into an act of war.

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see nothing wrong with expressing how you FEEL,But I always keep in mind that here we cannot get inflection of words and sometimes we misread something as simple as a difference in opinion into an act of war.

You're right, and I've read and re-read the articles and subsequent responses trying to see if perhaps I could have taken them to 'wrong' way.

I just don't see how those words could be taken any OTHER way. Neither does my husband.

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All I want is to be treated with some level of civility and respect.

Yeah, me too. I would have liked to have had the same things said to my face that were said behind my back. I would have liked to have been TOLD, either privately or publicly, that my words were 'sad' because my husband is 'fighting' to defend the constitution.

Respect is a two way street. Give it, and you will likely recieve it. Treat other people poorly, however....well, you shouldn't expect either civility OR respect in return.

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#8 by dharmagrl
Sunday, October 09, 2005

Respect is a two way street. Give it, and you will likely recieve it. Treat other people poorly, however....well, you shouldn't expect either civility OR respect in return.

exactly D, I can be in the middle of a flame war and back off instantly if shown some common courtesy, I treat people the way I want them to treat me, works most the time.

I mean dabe and I have flamed for almost 1 year and now although we disagree about most everything , we no longer flame each other.

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But that's all I'm gonna say about that, because it has been made perfectly clear that any opinion not in lockstep isn't welcome or respected.

I never said that. But all of you will continue to think I did, so there's no use mounting a defense, now, is there?

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I also meant to say that Gene is completely right about the reasons the ACLU et al won't touch this case - because in order for them to litigate, there has to have been a violation of someone's rights. As yet, there has been no violation, and until there is, no-one is going to want to assist.

Wrong...the ACLU won't touch a CIVIL case. I've already stated THAT as well. And nobody has said they won't touch it...a few organizations are keeping a close eye on it.

I asked you on the other site also to consider the date of the post. I could show more similarly venomous comments from you on the same date.

Perhaps it would be best for both of us to go our separate ways and avoid each other's articles. I'll try my best to do that where you're concerned from here on out.

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You've pretty much copied and pasted the problems you have with the article to this one, so in fairness I will remove the offending article from my sister site. But I do wish you'd take my comments in context. We've both been here too long and written too much for either of us to continue to get tied up in a snit fit like this.

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Just my thoughts...

Right or wrong, we do kind of see family members as representing the family unit. This is particularly true in the military. I mean, we tell our children that their behavior is important because it can either bring honor or disgrace on their service member father.

I'm not saying that I think you've trampled on the Constitution or lack respect for it. I think things have gotten heated and emotional, and I won't enter that part of the discussion.

But I CAN understand how someone would view the service member differently depending on the conduct of his or her family. We are held to a higher standard.

To those who would say that we are "not military"...this is an excellent example of just how military we are. More is expected of us than of civilian families, and in fact, we, through our words and actions, can make or break our service member's career.

While you may feel that it's wrong for him to pull your husband's service into all this, it's something that we, as military spouses, can expect from the people we come into contact with, military and civilian alike.

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It's also sad that some people don't realize that their way to fight something isn't the only way to fight it, and that other battle plans might be equally effective or *GASP* more effective, especially in the long run.

Gene,

I think you misunderstand me. I never said our way was the only way. It is simply the way WE have chosen to fight this. I also never said our rights had been violated yet. The social worker did ATTEMPT to do an "end-around" (most likely because she wasn't sure HOW to handle it), but frankly, they backed down pretty quickly when I asserted my rights. All in all, I'm reasonably impressed with how they've handled this to this point, quite frankly, even though I don't have much respect for the organization in general. But this is ongoing, so a lot of my approach has to fall in the "wait and see" category.

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But I do wish you'd take my comments in context.

Ha! You want ME to take your comments in context when you've failed to give me the same courtesy?

My problem isn't with your disagreeing with me. My problem isn't limited to your dragging my husband's service into this. My problem is with you failing to give me the courtesy of letting me know that you were writing a less-than-flattering article about my comments elsewhere. THAT'S what stings.

I treat people the way I want them to treat me, works most the time.

I try to. I learned the hard way that no good comes from saying behind someone's back things that you will not say to their face...so I've adopted a policy of 'tell or shut the fuck up'. As you can see, it's not winning me any friends. but you know what? I don't care. I'd rather have friends I knew I can trust to be straight with me.

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More is expected of us than of civilian families, and in fact, we, through our words and actions, can make or break our service member's career.

This is very true, and I have no issue with my actions reflecting on my husband's career. I know all too well that what I do CAN affect him...but to be honest, my political viewpoint isn't radical enough to be detrimental to his career. If I had told Gideon to run from CPS and that the militart would offer him it's protection if he came here to stay with us, then yeah, THAT would cause some problems for him. But my telling him to co-operate? I don't think so. (As an aside, I COULD have got myself and someone else into a bit of hot water over Gideon's circumstance, but that's another story. i stuck my neck out, and I'm prepared to take the heat for it.)

What I DO have an issue with is someone insinuating to others that I'm doing my husband a dis-service and NOT saying the same thing to me. My husband has a problem with someone he doesn't know telling the world what he's fighting for. The last time I checked, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan weren't about the constitution. If anything, the US constitution has MORE to fear from domestic enemies, enemies within than it does from outsiders and foreigners. But, it suited Gid's purpose to say that he's fighting to protect the constitution....I mean, this battle isn't about his kids, his family, and some spiteful old biddy who's trying to get him run out of town, now is it? No, this is about his constitutional rights.

Gid doesn't know why Dave enlisted. I do, and Dave does, but Gid doesn't, and Dave has a problem with Gid not only assuming that he knows what Dave's fighting for, but painting me to be almost a traitor.

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they backed down pretty quickly when I asserted my rights

Does that not set alarm bells ringing for you? In my experience, CPS doesn't just go away, and they don't back down unless they've got another plan of attack. Don't view their not pursuing this at the present time as 'backing down', because I don't think that they are....they're simply regrouping.

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I know all too well that what I do CAN affect him...but to be honest, my political viewpoint isn't radical enough to be detrimental to his career.

I don't mean any disrespect, and I hope it doesn't seem like I'm suggesting that I think you're in any way at risk of harming his career or creating a poor reflection of him. I don't mean that at all.

All I'm saying is that right or wrong, people are always going to hold us to a higher standard, and that our spouses will often be judged by our actions. And I'm really not trying to come off so condescending or know-it-all...I know you know this very well. You've lived that reality your entire married life.

What I DO have an issue with is someone insinuating to others that I'm doing my husband a dis-service and NOT saying the same thing to me.

I'm not saying that it's wrong for you (or Gideon) to be offended by the things that have been said. My point was just that having your actions tied to your husband's job and abilities is to be expected, regardless of whether those to things have anything to do with each other or not. What Gideon said was a low blow, but definitely more common than beyond the pale.

But, it suited Gid's purpose to say that he's fighting to protect the constitution....I mean, this battle isn't about his kids, his family, and some spiteful old biddy who's trying to get him run out of town, now is it? No, this is about his constitutional rights.

He's trying to protect his family in the way that he feels is best. It may not be the way that you or I would do it, but I'm sure he represents a large number of people who would love to stand up and fight but can't stomach the potential consequences.

He can. So he will. He feels it's necessary. And if he is successful, he stands to do a lot of good for many other people.

If he believes that fighting for his beliefs provides a crucial lesson for his children, then I accept that his values compel action and while I might caution him, I will not condemn him. How can a Soldier leave his children behind for a year at a time and do things that include killing and destruction? Does that make Soldiers bad parents? I mean, we all do things that other people will question. We all have different values.

As with Soldiers, what Gideon has chosen carries great risk, but if he is successful, the benefit for many will be tremendous. I do see a parallel there. He has chosen to stand up and fight, knowing what he may lose. So long as he understands what exactly it is that he stands to lose...well...it's really not my place to judge or condemn his values or choices, just as I would not want an anti-war civilian to slam my husband for leaving his children behind to fight in a war that the civilian doesn't agree with.

I don't think Gideon was passing judgment on why Dave enlisted...his comment referred to the oath that our service members take when they join up. And again, I think what he said was a low blow, but it was said out of hurt and frustration.

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I hope it doesn't seem like I'm suggesting that I think you're in any way at risk of harming his career or creating a poor reflection of him. I don't mean that at all.

it wasn't taken that way. No worries.

How can a Soldier leave his children behind for a year at a time and do things that include killing and destruction?

If the solider is being paid and is getting benefits such as housing, medical and a hefty life insurance payout...well, that sure does balance the scales a little, huh?

As with Soldiers, what Gideon has chosen carries great risk, but if he is successful, the benefit for many will be tremendous. I do see a parallel there. He has chosen to stand up and fight, knowing what he may lose.

I see your parallel, but it's not as even a playing field as that. Soldiers go off to war with an army behind them and the benefit of equipment and supplies. What's he got? His assertion of his constitutional rights. What's he up against? The gigantic steamroller-esque entity that is the CPS. Ever see that clip of the student in Tiannamen square, the one that was standing in front of the tank? Yeah, it's like that.

I simply cannot imagine jeopardizing my children and my family unity for ANYTHING. If CPS came to my house and told me to jump through flaming hoops, of course I'd ask why. If they told me to do it or lose my kids....I'd do it. And then, once I was done jumping through flaming hoops and I had my family security intact again....I'd go bitching as loud as I could as long as I could to any and every media agency and outlet available, I'd file suit against CPS et al and I'd do everything I could to make sure that no other family ever had to jump through flaming hopps again. AFTER I protected my kids. I wouldn't put them on the line for ANYHTHING or ANYONE. I don't need to make a political statement every time I turn around. I don't need to get on my soapbox every morning before breakfast, I don't have to look at every circumstance in my life and wonder how I can make this an action that will serve my party or my political aspirations well.

I'm not saying that Gid doesn't love his kids, or that he's a bad father. I'm just saying that the way I'd go about this is a LOT different than the way he's going about it, and if I'm seeing his actions in this light, if I'm 'misconstruing'.....then what the hell does he think CPS is doing? Does he think that they're NOT suspicious?

his comment referred to the oath that our service members take when they join up. And again, I think what he said was a low blow, but it was said out of hurt and frustration.

Yeah, well....hurt and frustration aren't acceptable excuses at this point. Sorry, but they're not.

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http://gideon-macleish.joeuser.com/index.asp?AID=88905 I also posted this to the offending site.

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