Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

Personal Responsibility, Public Education, Parenting

I was the kid teachers dreaded...

This is inspired partially by Dr. Guy's revived thread on the 5yr old who was arrested for becoming violent and assaulting a teacher and administrator and how the parent plans to sue the school for setting her baby up. Link

I was one of those children you hope you don't end up having. Until I was about 12 or 13, I was horribly violent. I could fly off the handle and go into an incoherent rage at the drop of a hat and inflict serious damage on anyone or anything around me. In preschool I once threw a tantrum and started flailing at other kids, the teacher had to pick me up and carry me away. While she was moving me away from the other kids, I managed to flail and squirm my way around and kicked her square in the face with both shoed feet. I do not remember if I did any serious injury to her, but I remember her not being around for a few days. I was maybe five years old, and I was capable of injuring an adult fairly easily. I had times where I would throw rocks... actual large rocks at people when I was mad at them. I would tip desks, chairs, and go for the throat when someone made me mad, howling madly and flailing all the while. My parents tried anger counceling, but unless something sparked my rage, I was a normal nice kid... and the rage was unpredictable so there was no way of really figuring out what was wrong with me. They tried punching bags, time-outs, everything... eventually they had to take just locking me in my room (and when they did this I would end up beating on my door so hard I'd break the hinges). I was a small kid too, never very strong or imposing, but when I went nuts there was nothing you could do but try and pin me to the ground until I exhausted myself.

I was a terror of a child (ironically I calmed down completely and turned into a nice mature young man when I hit my teen years... I'm told things usually happen in the opposite order with people... great as kids, holy terrors as teens... oh well). I have no doubt that in todays climate my preschool and elementary school teachers would have had to call the police to restrain me. As a kid I was the poster child for the "Keep guns out of houses with children" lobby groups. I could have in a rage gone and shot someone.

My parents were never the types to place blame where it wasn't deserved. I was raised to take responsibility for my own actions, and even as a psychotic violent little kid, I did just that. My parents never would have dreamed of suing a teacher or a school unless they actually did something wrong. Every time I ever got in trouble in school, my parents first reaction was "What did you do?" not the typical one nowadays of running to the principal and screaming bloody murder about how their little angel never does anything wrong. They defended me when I was wronged by teachers (which happened on occassion), and they nailed me to the wall when I did wrong. I think it was the consistency and honesty in their parenting that helped eventually level me out.

I know for a fact that there is no way in hell most teachers would be brave/stupid enough now to try and restrain a violent child. I have no doubt they would be sued from here to tomorrow for touching a child. A kid could come to school wielding an uzi, a teacher could run in and tackle the kid to get the gun away and in the end save many lives, but the teacher would be the one punished for assaulting a kid (You had no idea Johnny actually meant to shoot anyone! He was just kidding when he started yelling and pointing the gun at people!) How do I know this? Because I know what the reaction was to a teacher who enforced a homework policy in my 3rd grade class... 14 years ago.

The policy was, if you did not do your homework, you lost recess privledges for the day. There's little that is more devastating to a 3rd grader than not being able to go outside on the playground and play during recess. It wasn't an unreasonable policy considering we never had more than 10min of homework a night. The policy was effective too as most only tested the limit once or twice. However some parents took exception to such a harsh and fascist policy and would come in yelling about how their kid had scouts, little league etc and they couldn't be expected to do homework on top of all of that. The teacher's response was simple, school always comes first. Fun activities are secondary and should not get in the way of school. This was not what parents wanted to hear. They went after her to the administration for a few years over things like this. She was a strict teacher that held her students to a stated set of expectations that were very reasonable. I think we benefited from it because we knew when we were doing well, it was rewarding to know we got something right, to know we were meeting our teacher's expectations. We were also rewarded for meeting and exceeding expectations, which made us try harder to do well. She was one of the best teachers I had, and after only 3 or 4 years teaching, she finally called it quits because she was under siege from both the parents and a nervous administration who didn't want to tell parents they might be wrong. She was good at what she did, loved her kids, but she couldn't work in a system that wouldn't support her.

That was 14 years ago, when we were just seeing the start of the "not my fault" attitude from kids and parents. Teachers still had a shred of authority in their classrooms, but I was watching it errode before my very eyes. By the time I hit High School, that authority was gone. A senior assaulted a teacher, punched him in the face a few times and everything. Now, a senior in HS is no small-fry, and they can do as much damage as a full adult. The teacher at first just tried to block and get away, but eventually he had to defend himself and put the kid flat on his back on a lunchroom table by grabbing the kid by the shirt collar and basically lifting him up off the ground and tossing him on the table. The kid suffered no injuries while the teacher required stitches. The teacher came within inches of getting fired and the school board had a hell of a time fending off a furious mother who swore the teacher provoked the student, despite it happening in the lunchroom and hundreds of people said the student got up, walked over to the teacher and just slugged him for no evident reason... Turns out the student hadn't turned in a paper for a few weeks, so the teacher finally just gave him a 0 on it, causing him to get a D on the quarter. It was all pinned on the teacher, no responsibility on the student. The parent maintained that their child would never assault someone despite him being in detention or suspension several times a month for fighting.

Parents are teaching kids that they don't have to take responsibility for their actions. Parents believe they have no responsibility to raise their kids anymore. Government is taking away the ability for parents to raise their kids (well, away from the parents who are interested in the idea anyway). Parents and government are taking away the ability for schools to teach children by taking away any authority a teacher might have. Kids know when an adult has no authority, and as soon as they figure that out, the learning environment is done with since they'll just do whatever they like.

TV, movies, books are not a substitute for parenting. Neither is scouts or sports.
Schools are granted the rights of the parent over students while on school grounds (I believe the term is In Parentis Loco... or something to that effect), parents undermine the school's ability to do its job by voiding that basic rule every time their kid gets in trouble
Somehow kids need to learn that the wide world isn't going to protect their feelings, that once they're out of school they ARE responsibile for themselves and that they should maybe prepare for this before they're out there on their own. We've got a generation coming up that will soon be entering college that has never known a world where they could get an F for a grade, where the teacher holds any authority, where society expects them to be responsibile for their actions. They're used to suing when they don't get their way, to calling in their parents to save them from failing grades or a teacher who won't let them play outside after they beat the snot out of a little kid.

We're going to have a real problem in a few years when these kids enter the workforce. We're already seeing the impact in new college hires. A lot of the people I graduated with and work with now have a ridiculous sense of entitlement and still have their parents bail them out when they're in a tough spot.

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Zoomba you're right. If you do now what you did in the past, you definately would have been in handcuffs, possbily expelled from school. But yes, there are the few parents who do blame the schools when it comes to their child's behaviour and the ones who do this are often problematic themselves in their own lives.

The problem with today's society is some parents do not hold their children accountable for anything. They don't teach them to have respect and to learn from the mistakes they make. I agree with you there. It's such an "it's all about me and me only" generation. Most children today are disrespectful and have no idea how to be selfless. They have this sense of entitlement because this is what they learn.

The good thing is, while there are some parents who are irrational, not all parents are like that. There are still a lot of us around who are parenting our children.

As with you, no matter how "bad" you were, your parents stuck through it with you, and you came out alright. Unfortunately, some of these children aren't that lucky.

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Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

We need the courts and congress to sit up and take notices of this. We need to toss cases out of court where parents sue because they felt their child shouldn't have failed a paper. We need to establish some formal laws clearly and absolutely defining the rights and restrictions of discipline in schools. Teachers need a shield from bad parents. I've seen a number of excellent teachers leave teaching because they were fighting battles with parents AND the administration who just gives into parents at every turn. The situation is getting progressively worse too... How long before good teachers just don't bother and go into other fields? Most of my truely excellent teachers that remain are coming up on retirement very quickly... Many of the younger ones honestly stink because they're more concerned with being your buddy than with being your teacher. Yes there are exceptions, but the trend I saw in my own schools was disturbing.

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Yes on all counts.

Many of the younger ones honestly stink because they're more concerned with being your buddy than with being your teacher.

This is true and also is of some concern when teachers do this. It's like the mother who wants to be her child's best friend and not the parent.

The courts and congress do need to sit up and take notice and change a lot of these laws that will put a parents in jail when they try to disciplin their kids. I'm not talking about abuse here. I'm talking about disciplining a child to teach them when they are wrong.

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Too many of today's kids are taught that nothing and no one is more important than themselves. With that as their compass, of course, rules don't apply to them, and no one else deserves respect except them.

We are losing so much in our society to that idea.

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Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

I'm a firm believer in the idea that sometimes kids need a good smack upside the head when they screw up. Not a beating, just a good smack to get some sense into them as it's often the only way to get through to a kid. Time-outs don't work, they're just stupid and kids know this. Every parents should have a handful of truely harsh punishments that they save for when a kid really screws up. You should use these punishments sparingly, but absolutely when needed.

I spent an entire summer grounded once. I've also gone months with no TV, phone or computer. When I was older it was the car and after school activities that could be taken away. They were firm and clear messages that I had screwed up. There was never any question of what the consequences would be.

Parenting is the first and best line of defense we have against self-obsessed kids growing up into self-important adults. Sadly that responsibility is being passed to the schools now, but the tools needed to do this are placed out of reach. Teachers now have to essentially instill good morals and behavior (without anything that approaches Christian values... can't do that... oh no) as well as a sense of responsibility. But they can't do it through discouraging bad behavior, they have to do it entirely by encouraging good behavior, and letting bad behavior go... but they can't give a real reward for being good because those who are being bad will feel bad and left out, and that hurts their emotional state, so we can't do that. Teach morals, responsibility and good behavior without actually teaching it. Cause, ya know, parents are just too busy nowadays to parent.

It's like biting off our nose to spite our face and then blowing our feet off with a shotgun just for good measure.

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Cordelia

Join Date 07/2002

I was a good child. I did my chores and rarely talked back and did my homework and when I didn't do my homework and did poorly in class I took my bad grade as proof that I needed to work harder and then I worked harder. I didn't throw things, I didn't have tantrums, I didn't steal.

And yet I needed a smack upside the head or on the behind on more than one occasion.

We are losing so much in our society to that idea.

I gave you an insightful for that one ParaTed. I'm all for individual thinking and self-expression, but somehow that has translated into "I'm better than everyone else". As soon as a child starts thikning "I'm better than everyone" rather than "I can acheive anything", that child stops trying to acheive and expects everything to be handed to them.

Thanks for the article Zoomba, and for sharing what a little terror you were.

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