Stalker0

Join Date 04/2009

+60

Should Initial Starbases have Attack/Defense?

When Gal Civ 3 first showcased starbases with initial defenses, I jumped for joy. What a great idea I thought!

However, as time goes by, I've wondered if this is the right approach. Between needing transports for planets and strong fleets to attack starbases...there isn't really anything to attack in the early game. It makes the concept of early aggression nearly pointless.

In Gal Civ 2, you could try to take the early resources...but you had to fortify either with ships or with further attack/defense modules in order to hold them. Early aggression was a valid strategy to control asteroids and resource stations...even if you still could not invade planets.

So I ask the question, would the game be better off if the initial starbase was more vulnerable?

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AND shipyards should have lower defenses.

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Larsenex

Join Date 04/2009

+212

I disagree. If anything all Starbases and shipyards should have double or triple the values they have now. A very long alpha and beta testing showed that the easiest way to kill anyone was to destroy the shipyard. If anything make them so strong you need strong fleet to remove while losing most of your fleet in the process.

If you want to lower the values figure out how to mod it. It is easy enough.

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If anything all Starbases and shipyards should have double or triple the values they have now.

Second that. Especially as the starbase military upgrades don't keep up with the power of ships and fleet sizes. The starbases become increasingly easier and easier to knock out so that a battle that should have some meaning is basically just mopping up.

My proposal would be:

- Modify the starbase building proximity rule so that a military starbase can be built in the radius of another starbase if that other starbase is yours AND it isn't a military starbase.

- If you attack a starbase that has in its radius other starbases and ships of the defending faction the resulting battle is against all of them.

This would allow you to surround a non-military starbase with a ring of military starbases similar how you build starbase rings around planets and it would also allow you to defend them all with shared ships giving a big synergy advantage.

I think you'd need a quite sizable fleet to defeat such a construction. As you should.

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BuckGodot

Join Date 11/2009

+73

Don't forget about the existence of pirates. Starbases/shipyards need to be able to fend them off in the very early game.

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Ship yards should be upgradeable just like starbases. This can then allow for rush safe yards at the beginning and mega forts at the end.

Frankly they could branch into becoming either a econ or military base.

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erischild

Join Date 01/2012

+136

I am not sure how much the concept of early aggression needs defending. If you need something to pick on for fun that is part of what the pirates should be doing for you. I escort an early survey ship with a couple early warships and go play space bully by actively chasing ship graveyards and a little later, pirate starbases. Keeps my bloodlust satisfied until the AI gets up to something.

As for aggression against starbases, judging by the pirate bases I mess with, I don't find them all that invulnerable. You might have to beef up your early forces a little more than you are used to, but what is life without these little challenges? It still works just fine. Early aggression almost always does if you do it right.

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MottiKhan

Join Date 04/2007

+152

Quoting Gauntlet03,

reply 5

Ship yards should be upgradeable just like starbases. This can then allow for rush safe yards at the beginning and mega forts at the end.

I'd like to be able to upgrade my shipyard defenses. Until then, one ship with weapons and no engines does the trick.

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I don't find them that difficult to kill tbh. Use a few small hulls with prototype weapons and a starbase or shipyard isn't very tough. They need to be solid enough that 'early aggression' means more than 'I build three ships and now I can dominate the universe'.

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Larsenex

Join Date 04/2009

+212

Early on, we found that on Small and medium maps, races that had access to ships with weapons could instantly win a game by finding the other ai or players shipyard. So the choice was made to put def/attk on them. Its just enough to get you going to the early ships wont knock them out.

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Yup and it would be nice to upgrade them ( for a price) to do the same in mid game too

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