Quantity has a Quality of its Own: Civilization IV AIs Built Terrifying Stacks of Doom and How to Apply it to GC3

marigoldran

Join Date 06/2013

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Quantity has a Quality of its Own: Civilization IV AIs Built Terrifying Stacks of Doom and How to Apply it to GC3

Concept:

If you max out a fleet with the highest logistics possible for the state of the game (ignore the Shrinker) and equip it with the best weapons (or the best weapons for that state of the game) NOTHING can stop it except for another similar maxed out fleet (assuming techs are approximately equal). And if the two fleets battle each other, even the winner will be badly bruised and lose many ships.

Consequently, the concept of using "screen ships," or "scout ships" during a war is pointless. A maxed out fleet is unstoppable, except by another similarly maxed out fleet. Furthermore, it doesn't matter if the maxed out fleet is surrounded and outnumbered by 10 maxed out fleets. ONLY ONE OF THOSE 10 CAN BATTLE IT AT A SINGLE TIME.

In other words, the optimal strategy in a war of attrition where one side has a major production bonus (but is unfortunately a tactical idiot) is ball up as many logistically maxed out ships as possible in a fleet, using the best technology possible. And the best place to ball up is on your own home worlds near your shipyards (lowers the chance of the rallying troops getting picked off in transit. Has the secondary purpose of protecting those worlds). Once you get the ball of ships in a gigantic fleet, even if the other side beats it, they'll take large casualties that will in the long run wear them down.

Sending out scout ships in front of a maxed out fleet is actually a waste of resources. Once a fleet maxes out logistically, there is nothing in the game of equivalent technology that can tackle it without taking large losses themselves. In other words, for a tactically idiotic but extremely productive nation that is interested in waging a war of attrition, this is the best strategy BECAUSE IT PRETTY MUCH COMPLETELY AVOIDS TACTICS. You don't need much tactics when you have concentrated numbers of ships.

Think of the Stacks of Doom in Civilization III and IV. Those things could be quite terrifying. And I believe this is EXACTLY how the Civ IV developers envisioned it when they made the game. They KNEW programming AI tactics was probably futile against an intelligent human, so instead they had the AI mass up these stacks of doom in SAFE PLACES (the reinforcements could not be picked off in transit) and then just charge them at you.

Civ IV AIs are idiots. But they knew how to do one thing right: Concentrate the largest force possible IN A SAFE LOCATION WHERE THE INCOMING REINFORCEMENTS CANNOT BE PICKED OFF PIECEMEAL BY THE HUMAN PLAYER and then when the stack is ready, smack you with it.

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Quoting node10,

reply 25

The late game is the least explored area of the game, for obvious reasons. It's natural that areas of concern will crop up, and will likely continue to do so over time. The only thing that bothers me is that somewhere someone thought that having so many moves in a TBS was going to work.

That, a trade lockout which lets you only declare war or not talk to allies for turn after turn while you might need help, trade which lets you see everything they have in their entire empire, tool tips which let you see the characteristics of which planets are doing what for the other empires, for good or bad, AI that can't fight, can't see, can't think about how best to attack you, AI that waltzes though your borders, borders that mean nothing, and strategy after strategy (read exploit) that the AI can't compete with because it was first built after the snow melted this year, and on and on.

Bigger maps yes, but if you can travel across them in 5 turns what is the point?

More management (read micromanagement) yes empires now span larger areas and have different shaped sectors, the map itself is improved but this is all that the expense of all the advancements made in Gal Civ 2's skus. The AI sure that that lets tell the human player some BS every other 3 turns down, and or hit them up for money down, and I can't say I dislike getting a free tech from some of them every other turn but really I if it came down to it, could I take or leave stuff in this game most of it is leave it.

Fleet AI -Leave it

World Building AI -Leave it

Trading -Leave it

Diplomacy -Leave it

Pirates -Take it

Ship designer -Take it

Multiplayer- Take it

Performance - Leave it

ugh. They not only had a beta, they had a paid alpha test phase. I just wish it was December 2015 and the game was patched up and running as well as GCII. I guess I wonder why they could not use AI from CGII and build on it rather than create AI from sq 1.

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A bit harsh. GC3 has bucket loads of stuff going for it. It just needs the kinks ironing out. Okay, this moves thing is more than a mere 'kink', it unwinds the core function of what a TBS is meant to accomplish, but I'm sure even that will see attention eventually.

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Quoting node10,

reply 27

I don't disagree there are peaks and valleys, just don't like active products with "potential" the time to iron kinks out on a 3rd run of a product is in beta and not after release.

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