Pushing Back the Shadowlands and Other Frustrations

By on April 2, 2015 3:57:10 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

marlowe221

Join Date 12/2013
+4

So... about the map.

I know that there are landscape-altering spells in the game. I have even seen some of them and had a chance to use a few myself.

Maybe there is a way (but if so it's TOO RARE) but it would be great if there was a way to push back the shadow lands around my cities. Is there a way to do that? I have played a couple of games in Beta 5 on the smaller maps where there were very few city locations to build on at all and most of them were tiny little islands of green surrounded by shadowlands. Of course, the shadowlands give no resources on city expansion which makes sense but really sucks the joy out of expanding when your new city is gimped from the start and there is nothing (apparently) that you can do about it.

Now one would think that the Restore Land spell is the ticket! The name of the spell sounds promising but... the description is kind of vague... Of course, it turns out that shadowlands do not count as "marginal land." In point of fact, I have yet to find a valid tile to cast that particular spell on; as far as I can tell it is a waste of mana and turns to research Restore Land at all. Is that spell borked or something? Are there tiles that are supposed to be considered marginal land that are currently not being recognized as such?

Anyway, it would be really cool if there was a way to push back the shadow lands (and those spiky viney things) as my cities grow or maybe as a spell or city enhancement spell or SOMETHING. If there is already a way to do that, please someone tell me how!

If there is already a way to do that it is 1) not obvious, 2) doesn't come up often enough (if it's a spell).

More generally, I don't know if certain spells get a weight in the RNG when it comes to what pops up to be researched but if so, the weighting seems a little off. For example, I get that summon skeleton spell every freaking time. I never cast that spell - the unit is super weak, even at the beginning of the game. I only research it to get it off the book and make room for the possibility that something more useful will become available.

TL;DR - The art in this game is beautiful and I love the idea of being the guy who is bringing life back to this land that has been ravaged by centuries of warfare and (lately) truckloads of evil. But it doesn't seem possible to actually DO that in-game and it definitely should be (and if it is possible, HOW?).

 

Other Frustrations:

1) Sir Kriston/Kirston/Whatever - why exactly does he exist? He is just about the most useless unit in the entire game that I have seen so far. Not to mention the fact that his HP is so low that the AI likes to target him a lot and he does not last very long in the game. He seems like some weird kind of half-champion and honestly, would be better replaced by a standard soldier or pikeman unit.

2) Scouts - I love scouts with auto-explore. But here's the thing - They are NOT picking up goodie chests and they ARE triggering quests if their movement ends with them landing on a quest location. Any chance of reversing those behaviors? Because it is SUPER annoying the way it is now.

3) Logistics Points - I totally get why they exist and I like the mechanic overall. But the balance is a bit off at the moment. We need one of a few things to happen: 1) We get a 2-3 more logistics points at the start of the game, 2) Structures that give logistics points need to grant a couple more each, 3) City building sites need to be more common than they are now, or 4) Some combination of the preceding fixes. We need to be limited by Logistics but not to the point of frustration. (Do units from Minor Factions use up Logistics points?)

4) Minor Factions - It's cool that they give units and champion-esque characters to play with but... what about the cities? It is nice to have vision around allied Minor cities but there is nothing that the player can do there (that I have found so far). What if the minor factions granted small empire-wide bonuses once you're allied with them? Maybe to mana generation or logistics... maybe one could provide a few additional metal or crystal...

 

Sorry for the wall of text but I really like this game want to help in the small ways that we non-math/non-coding guys can. Thanks to the devs for all your hard work.

 

 

 

Locked Post 13 Replies +1 Karma
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
NaytchSG
April 2, 2015 10:00:43 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Trust me, Stardock People, I love you and your games. But some of these persistent bugs (like the bug that two enemy units STILL STILLLLLLL occupy the same tiles some times.) that you seem to be unable to address...are killing me. 

 

Why do we continue to report these when you ignore this simple stuff? I've seen these complaints since Beta 1....

It leaves me very unwilling to report these.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 2, 2015 10:58:13 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Great points, thanks for taking the time to write it all up! 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 3, 2015 1:44:42 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

I'll add this - I just learned the spell Enhance Land. The description reads that I can turn grasslands into fertile terrain, which I can only assume means land that I can build a new city on.

NOPE!

When I try to cast the spell I am told that I cannot cast the spell on grasslands - exactly what the tool tip says I CAN do... :]

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 3, 2015 12:42:14 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

There is actually a ton of logistic available mid-early and later game.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 7, 2015 12:19:38 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Werewolf,

We're well aware of the "units occupying the same tile" bug you mentioned and it will get fixed before release.  Sometimes opinions on bug priority are different, but that's why it's good to get community feedback on the forums

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 7, 2015 12:23:06 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

marlowe221,

Thanks for the feedback, lots of good ideas.  

on a few specifics: 

Sir Kirston (or whatever) definitely need a buff... totally useless at this point

Minor Factions do give you some additional bonuses if you talk with them after they've allied.  In the next patch, we're also adding a lot more bonuses if you go to war and destroy their city (a fertile plot & several resources).

 


 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 7, 2015 3:07:49 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Enhance land actually does what I think you're looking for... turns Shadowlands into fertile tiles.  The description is now fixed internally and will be in the next patch.  Thanks for the bug report!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 8, 2015 8:01:22 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Hi Cbray! Do you have an ETA on the next patch? I'm hoping that since we don't have beta milestones any more, the patches will become more frequent...

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 8, 2015 10:31:43 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

We're planning the next patch for late next week, but haven't confirmed it yet.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 8, 2015 11:18:18 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Thanks for the response(s) Cbray.

I do like some of the bonuses that the Minor Factions give once I convince them that the Sorcerer King is not their friend. I particularly like the wraith-guys who make the doomsday counter go backwards!

Otherwise, I will try out Enhance Land on some shadowlands tiles and see how that goes.

I did finally find a valid tile to cast Restore Land on - it was kind of a taupe colored desert-y looking tile. The thing is, I'm not sure this is a terribly useful spell as it currently works. I mean, I have little reason to cast such a spell anywhere except right around one of my cities, especially considering the mana cost. The way the random map generator seems to work, it seems highly unlikely that one of my cities (especially my initial city or even the second city) will be in desert-y type areas. In fact, I have yet to ever have a city in an area that contains such a tile - hence my initial belief that the spell was broken.

Now, if Restore Land actually turned marginal land into a fertile tile that could be settled that would be quite different! (Is that what it does? I still didn't cast the spell even after I found a valid location because it was FAR away from my 2 cities).

If I understand things correctly:

Enhance Land - Gets rid of Shadowlands tiles and turns them into.... what? Marginal Land? Grassland?

Restore Land - Gets rid of Marginal Land and turns it into Grasslands? Fertile Land?

 

I really like the concept of being powerful enough to alter the landscape in the game. I do think either some RNG weighting on some of these spells so that they come up more often (since they are important) OR some tweaks to the random map generator that causes slightly fewer shadowlands tiles to be produced (maybe within a certain radius of fertile sites?) might be in order.

Either way, I am looking forward to the kinks being worked out - I think the landscape spells really add a lot of interesting choices on the strategic map and make the player really feel like a powerful wizard/caster/etc.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 8, 2015 2:53:39 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Enhance Land - gets rid of Shadowlands and turns them into fertile (settleable) tiles

Restore Land - gets rid of marginal land and turns it into Grasslands (better yields if near a city)....   admittedly, this is not a terribly useful spell.  We'll look to rebalance


Also, we think we have the units-occupying-same-tile bug fixed internally now.  Still needs to be put through the paces, but looks promising.  The lesson here is if you post about it enough on the forums, we'll eventually say "screw our finally tuned schedules and priorities" and just fix it right away

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 9, 2015 3:12:01 PM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting cbray,

Enhance Land - gets rid of Shadowlands and turns them into fertile (settleable) tiles

Restore Land - gets rid of marginal land and turns it into Grasslands (better yields if near a city)....   admittedly, this is not a terribly useful spell.  We'll look to rebalance.

 

 

So what happens if I cast Enhance Land on shadowlands tiles that are in the ZOC of a city that I already have? Or would that be a different spell?

If that spell does not exist... could it exist? That way I can convert worthless tiles around my city to tiles that I can actually expand to (tiles with wheat or hammers, etc.) when my city grows in size.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
April 10, 2015 10:29:15 AM from Sorcerer King Forums Sorcerer King Forums

Quoting marlowe221,

So what happens if I cast Enhance Land on shadowlands tiles that are in the ZOC of a city that I already have? Or would that be a different spell?

If that spell does not exist... could it exist? That way I can convert worthless tiles around my city to tiles that I can actually expand to (tiles with wheat or hammers, etc.) when my city grows in size.

 

Restore land should work exactly like this.  If it doesn't let me know.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108432  walnut2   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0000219   Page Render Time: