I think saying the RTS market is dying is a bit of truth mixed with a dash of hyperbole and a sprinkling of oversimplification. The games industry has been seeing the same creeping consolidation most industries have over the past couple decades. For RTS we have SC2 with games like CoH/CoH2 and others distant second tier in terms of popularity/players. For MOBAs, it's basically 2 games with HoN a more distant third. Yet MOBAs are considered thriving and RTS is dying? 

A lot of studios that produced past RTS titles are gone or got gobbled up by larger publishers. Are there actually less RTS players these days or just less titles to choose from? It's always been a bit of a niche genre but I suspect a lot of people who played in past titles simply moved to SC2 or one of the MOBAs since there are so few other options. I think the demand is still there (look at out how successful Planetary Annhilation's Kickstarter campaign has been) or has even grown but publishers/studios seem to not view them, rightly or wrongly, as good financial choices. Dawn of War II, C&C IV, and Supreme Commander2 all to greater or lesser degree failed to establish themselves as much as their predecessors did (although I loved DoW2 personally and I think it did alright financially) so those may be some examples and reasons for why pubs/studios are more hesitant.

How well PA, Bioware/EAs f2p C&C, and CoH2 do will be a good indicator of whether right now is just a low point or if there really is less demand/interest from players. Personally I'm also really looking forward to Creative Assembly's Warhammer Fantasy game - their usual mix of TBS/RTS.

Master of Economy.  Indonesia has very low luck.  Container only has luck in the setup.  Rolling Stock can be played with a pre-set order of companies coming out.  18xx has no luck. 

Again, the point is that RTS will hide things about itself that can be found out later by people who have too much time on their hands.  You can't do that in board games, because the rules all have to be known.  With the exception of Risk Legacy.

Also, at least you know in the board game where the randomization will happen and what the possible outcomes are, and their probabilities.

That doesn't meant there isn't strategy involved. And again, why the strong word of hate? I'd reserve that for a game that almost offends what your definition of a game should be, like a horse riding game or something. If you like strategy I don't see why you wouldn't at least respect some RTS games, even if their style isn't really your thing.

Again, I think you are likely in the minority if you like TBS but have never played an RTS you liked. They're not all like Starcraft. Heck in theory you can just let the AI handle all your micro in Sins if you play against the easier AIs. Others like Rise of Nations focus just as much on Empire building as on combat.

So why are you posting in the elemental forums, and why did you feel the need to hate on one genre just to say you like another better, when you could have just left this thread for people who actually care about RTS games? Just seems rude if nothing else.

First it was the "PC gaming is dying" prophecy and we all know how THAT turned out!   Total defeat for the prophets.

Now it seems to be "RTS games are dying".

Well, my answer to that is simply:

Every time when I log on to RelicOnline (to play Company of Heroes) there are always atleast 1000 players online. I can't remember the real numbers but it's something like that. I just play a mod called Modern Combat which has less than 10 active players (that can play anytime they're online on Steam) and I still manage to get a game most of the time.

Dawn of War I & II have lost almost all their players. Understandable since the first one is so old now and kinda got replaced by Company of Heroes and DoW II was a bit of an experiment which didn't turn out well for many people (including me).

StarCraft II dropped 75% of its players after some months (including me). I don't think they will come back to the multiplayer. I won't.

Can't think of any other highprofile RTS games 

As for upcoming RTS games....

Company of Heroes II will sell very well. If it doesn't break 2 millions in the first week then I will be disappointed.

As for StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm, I can't say how it will sell. I think many who bought StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty were disappointed with its old style of RTS gameplay (like I were) and will not buy Heart of The Swarm though many will because of the excellent campaign & custom maps.

I'll throw out a guess of 25% of WoL buyers will get HoTS. Let's see if I'm right or not 

Generals II is F2P (damn good move by EA!) and will therefore sell lots of skinpacks, new faction, skirmish mode, campaign etc to those who like it.

And this covers the RTS games I know about. Planetary Annihilation I have no interest in since it's like Supreme Commander and if there were another one then I can't even remember it....

oh what the hell do they know. People said Space Sims are dead, and PC is a dead platform, both are completely untrue.

No genre ever dies, it may go into a hibernation waiting for the next big thing, but never dead.

The reason why they say that is because there have been a flood of sub-par RTSs, just like their are a bunch of sub-par FPSs, but those will fade away while the gems will luster on and on. and the same for RTSs

they say MMOs are dead, again a lot of bad ones, a few good ones.

All of these genres can be revitalized with a well thought out and good entry into their respective arenas. It's just lately the game industry is trying to stay ahead by doing quantity over quality.

and of course, where would a post about the game industry be without "I blame EA", and yes, I do blame them, because they represent all that is wrong and unholy about video games. I think people know what I mean, so I don't need to say more.

-AE

I've always enjoyed TBS over RTS, but excellent RTS games like Starcraft I/II, Dune, Warcraft, etc... are fantastic games and it is foolish to overlook them. 

You made yourself clear enough already in your initial post.

I think the Goafans issue was not your hate of RTS games, rather how it is completely unrelated to the topic of this thread. At least i fail to see what your gaming preferences mean in a bigger picture of possible demise of the RTS genre.

That said, i dont really care, whether your posts are on topic, or anyone elses for that matter. Your choice. But how can you wonder when people react negatively to your not very polite behavior (yes, posting off-topic is not polite thing to do),...that is well beyond my comprehension.

Anyway, seeing your Rolling Stones comments, we can conclude now you just have terrible taste in general and move on 

Thanks

TBF, i like them and hold their music in a high regard, but i dont usually listen to them...sometimes i feel like to hear Lady Jane, Ruby Tuesday or This Place is Empty...other than that though, there is load of bands i would prefer to listen to...

Out of curiosity, what do you consider to be interesting and not dull music? In other words, what music you like? While we may not agree on Rolling Stones, perhaps by chance we will find some common ground here

This thread was overtaken by Frogboys article on the same topic anyway.

Well, while your musical taste is not complete match to mine, i can definitely say, we are not that far apart here. I am not really expert to either LedZep or the Who, i mean i am not familiar with the complete work of either of these bands, but i listen to their music from time to time...although in case of Who, i actually own album called Substitute with covers of some of their best songs - especially i like Pictures of Lily (on that cd performed by David Bowie, i like his version even better than original ). but then again songs like Seeker, Behind Blue Eyes or 5:15 are absolutely brilliant as well. 

Regarding Rush, again i only have Retrospective I album, which is i suppose some kind of best of...so i assume i miss quite a lot here, as i am actually sucker for progressive rock. My fav band here is Yes, but i love Pink Floyd, Crimson King, Buggles, Asia, Mystery, Renaissance, Styx, Druid, Camel, perhaps Genesis, Dream Theater as well...

The metal/hard rock stuff, i dont know - i like "I feel safe in New York city" for example by ACDC and few Iron Maiden songs, but not really familiar with them...

Regarding country, not really a fan probably, although i love Simon and Garfunkel, Don McLean and i am not sure whether thats qualifies as country or not...and recently i was introduced to music of Glenn .....(cant recall the surname now, he has Wichita Linesman and Galveston  songs) and it was quite ok... when i think about it, its probably folkrock, what i like

And yeah, i am definitely not a fan of RnB/rap either, although there are indeed exceptions.

Will listen to that Thin Lizzy song later at home, dont have a sound on this computer 

Indeed, the developers don't know what to do to innovate RTS anymore, and speed being everything in things like StarCraft doesn't help matters either.

EA has so far screwed up CnC in the aftermath of Generals/Zero Hour, and I am not expecting the latest one to change that. Homeworld was never really able to follow up on the original. StarCraft is all about speed, though I do like the game and universe, its just too fast-paced for my taste. SupCom was never properly followed up on, though Planetary Annihilation seems like it might change that. Planetary Annihilation really does seem to be the only bright spot for RTS on the horizon.