LordTheRon

Join Date 03/2003

+13

[.992] Spell of Making victory too easy?

This has probably been discussed before but I can't recall a discussion since the last beta. I just finished a hard game that the Ythril AI should have won. I was outnumbered and very much overpowered by Ythril, yet going for the Spell of Making victory brought me just that without breaking a sweat. It felt like a pretty hollow victory tbh. Here's the save: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D8227434_68566320_061492

I really find it weird that Ythril didn't even try to stop me from casting the spell. First they only have 10 turns to stop me, which isn't a lot. But then I was in an easy position to get attacked. Not even a single try.

I think it's been proposed before that every other faction declares war on the faction casting the spell of making. That's a good suggestion, but with only 10 turns to make something happen it's almost impossible. I think the casting time should be longer. Then it would be fun to see at least all factions you don't have close relations with declaring war on you AND focus on trying to stop you from casting the spell.

Currently it's the easy way out if you are losing the game and that shouldn't be possible. At least not so easily.

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parrottmath

Join Date 03/2008

+206

Maybe provide a spell to the other factions to extend the time it takes to cast your spell. Call it disruption costing the opposing faction something like 100 mana to postpone the spell of making by 5 turns. This would be a nice reaction from the AI if they have the mana to spare for that defense. I also agree that people should declare war and try to stop you from outright winning the game.

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Quoting parrottmath,

reply 1

I like the idea of disruption to slow things down, though it might be hard to find the right balance. 100 mana for 5 turns is too little mana for that phase of the game. (I easily do 20 mana per turn so I would be able to slow it down forever). The spell itself costs 500 mana and takes 10 turns. So slowing it down should at least be as expensive I think, meaning 250 mana for 5 turns. This, in combination with all out war should really make it a race to the clock and much more epic than it currently is.

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Nobody who thinks the Spell of Making should be harder to achieve?

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Quoting LordTheRon,

reply 3

Nobody who thinks the Spell of Making should be harder to achieve?

I agree it is way too easy. It is like "I'm bored of this game. Time to win with Spell of Making". Only, why bother? Since its not really a challenge. Real winners go with conquest victory. Admittedly when I do this, I am already winning. But I'd like some consequences for trying to win this way. How about a -10 relations penalty "YOU ARE CASTING THE SPELL OF MAKING, TRYING TO BIND ALL MAGIC TO YOURSELF! AS A FELLOW MAGIC USER, THIS PISSES ME OFF".

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Agreed - at some point in the spell of making quest line, it should be like using nukes in Civ - everyone declares war on you.

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Yes. Some of the buildings (if not all of them) have other uses. They should have had a building with NO other use but to cast the spell, they should have put something nasty about the building in the lore, and everyone should declare war as soon as you start building it.

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Ya, the challenge for this victory path should come from the faction AI ganging up on you. Presumably you are casting it because you can't succeed in conquest. Well, you had better be good a defense.

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Sure hope the devs take notice. The quest victory is fine as is but the spell of making is just the easy way out. Besides that I haven't seen the AI pursuing the Spell of Making.

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No, the Master quest victory is the really easy way out. It's the easiest way to win on insane.

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Hmmm have to try that again. Been awhile since I did that, found it rather difficult back then, but I got quite a bit better at the game so have to retry.

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