Really, All I hear is: given equal cost monies, at low fleet supplies a starbase will beat a fleet. This is how it should be.
It is like saying, my mass marines wont crack a turtling (pick other race here), please buff terran.
Or saying my 4-gate isnt crushing my enemy every single time, please buff protoss.
Or saying that those missle turrets are too effective against my mutalisks. plea...
come on.
Hmm well you "hear" wrongly, because you want to contradict. Did you carefully read my post? I highly doubt it, because I carefully explain myself quite well in it, leaving little to no room for misinterpretation. I suggest you reread. I point out several valid points in the game, which would serve to balance races. This was one example of MANY that I could draw about the vasari/advent matchup. I understand pretty much every nuance there is in this fight, from both sides.
The reason I used credit/metal/crystal counts is stated clearly above if you read carefully. Against a competent vasari there is little a skilled advent player can do, unless they get a lot of feed early on, or the vasari player makes some egregious mistakes. I think I give a pretty clear indication about how time effective the vasari are when compared to advent, and honestly a starbase would be built far before you have illuminators en masse. TIME is extremely valuable. That is why it is included. The point is that the TIME it takes for you to build the illuminators is going to take FAR LONGER then any assaulting starbase would take, so therefore any attacking starbase is a make or break fight to the death. IF you don't take it out on your HW you will lose.
You would defend the orkulus starbase even though it is the only one that can really survive against two early game fleets...Yeah thats not overpowered. Try defending against a 2v1 as advent and see how "strong advent defense is"...lol. It comes down to building lots of beam turrets and thats it...those take a lot of time, and your constructors will be toast before you know it.
When you have little to no options, you know it. TEC don't suffer this problem vs vasari because they build ogrovs AND have a stong economy, and have cheaper, high single target dps LRM that make an early starbase rush idiotic.
Advent have the weakest economy AND have the worst building destroyers and have expensive LRM that need to be en masse to be effective.
This is just ONE example of the racial disparity, and it happens to be the largest. A well timed starbase at an enemy homeworld while the advent fleet is abroad expanding is extremely effective, on the attack using the aforementioned 2 skirantra 1 starbase attack is extremely strong. The 30 lums will be at a disadvantage IN THEIR OWN GRAV WELL. Scratch that, you won't even have 30 illuminators, not even close! You won't be anywhere near your military effectiveness while the vasari fleet will. The vasari bring "reinforcements" quickly by upgrading their starbase. Its a viable tactic that has been in use since entrenchment came out.
If the vasari are close enough and get a small amount of feed they can bring in overseers early to support the starbase and you lose! Advent get the same feed and they only become competative with vasari. Yes you will not be winning ANY easy victories as advent.
Its a question of rates, and using resource cost and time is a quick and easy way for people to see the difference in the rates.
If we were to even the credit cost between the two, and factor in time as well, and assume that credit incomes are equal(though vasari will most likely have a higher income), the vasari will be able to upgrade 2 more health upgrades reaching maximum health before the illum force can reach them. The illum force wouldn't have a chance.
But, as soon as you realize that starbases cant jump... this is there one weakness, if they own 1-2 gravity wells that they have starbased, then you should be able to outmacro them. If they have more than 2 grav wells starbased, and you have been investing in fleet, your concentrated investment into your fleet means that you should be able to squish their starbases one at a time without too much of a horrible loss.
Its true, focusing on fleet 100% is advents only chance. I understand vasari starbases can't jump. I also understand that the vasari starbase is a fleet in a box, that just takes 50 ish seconds to resupply with cost effective amounts of cash. It can defend FAR better then any other racial defense and everyone knows this. It is not as effective when built in an enemy grav well with a fleet, but then later on fleets will be many places and sneaking one in is easy and highly effective. A warning when starbase construction occurs in the grav well is needed for this reason.
The thing is that in multiplayer games you aren't just a duck alone in the pond. Your time and money efficiency aren't lost on other players, you will get fed FAR more likely as vasari then advent because of this racial advantage. Also, you don't need feed if you have enough neutrals, something advent/tec has difficulty acquiring early on. Vasari are very self sustainable and will hold out in a suicide spot where all other races fail to do so.
Illums are SUPRISINGLY EFFECTIVE vs vasari starbases, because the damage types of the vasari starbase have very very low modiferies vs light armor. really. The base weaons have a 50% damage modifier, and the first upgrade 25%!!!! damage modifier. Second upgrade 75%.
Yep so effective, except that they aren't. Trunkating your counter argument to just damage modifiers is overly simplifying the combat, and I'm not getting into combat calculations for the simple reason that it is pointless. Any competent multiplayer person knows i'm right, and i'm dealing with all the variables that exist actually IN PLAY while you are not when you discuss damage modifiers. Advent players are so starved for cash early on they need SHIPS to upgrade before the upgrade means anything. The point is the SHIPS aren't in enough abundance!
Now the handy thing with the vasari is that they can just build a starbase and not upgrade it. They can actually build 2 unupgraded starbases, one on their HW, and one on the enemy HW, before the advent fleet gains an advantage. Have fun dealing with that one! lol. Its a great timing thing to lure the advent fleet to your HW and then build a SB at thier HW. Not only will their fleet take a damage antimatter loss (making your phase missiles all the more capable for quick kills) your small kanrak force can then persue closely and snipe ships quickly...
You can exploit time wasting tactics by just moving your caps and colonizer through the grav well playing chicken with the enemy fleet while you fleet up as well...the enemy would be so hell bent on taking you out you have complete control over where they move their forces making them predictable and therefore easily defeatable.
Why do you think after getting good with the advent i'm going to be a vasari player? Let me think...because as a vasari player knowing what I learned as the underdog advent will allow me to fully realize my potential and just mercilessly slaughter my opponents.
Its fun, happy hunting.
It's certainly less damage than the SB could do against Illums, but if you engage it with illums you will probably take a whole bunch of losses unless it's already down to 50% hull or something.
The vasari weapon upgrade takes 18 seconds to upgrade after the station is built. IF you upgrade this first, you will wipe out a tier 0 defense fleet very fast even if you are only at 825 remaining HP. True story, had it happen to me, lost my homeworld to an early starbase attack. My fleet didn't return home fast enough, another second and I would have won. The only thing i could have done differently would have been to build a progenitor mothership and run for the center of the map early to avoid this inevitablilty, as I had started spamming IMMEDIATELY.