Elemental: War of Magic 1.3 Changelog

Island Dog

Join Date 06/2003

+1048

Elemental: War of Magic 1.3 Changelog

Economy tweaked and fix for out of control population
+ AI more reactive about updating strategy when a target city has been conquered / destroyed
+ Janusk has been removed. Goodbye old friend. See you in the Fallen Enchantress tutorial... (UI option not yet removed)
+ AI now evaluates which player they care about the most with Dynasty ties being a big motivator. When a sovereign dies, it will give its kingdom to its heir.
+ Repeatable improvements now increase with cost as more are built.
+ World difficulty now sets the default AI player difficulty
+ Modders can set the base cost of repeatable improvements in the appropriate .xml file
+ Base unit CON reduced from 5 to 3
+ Special buildings now longer required to build special units. Instead, these buildings provide bonuses (i.e. no need for a command post to train groups)
+ Minimum number of units you can train has been increased to 4.
+ Trained units default HP reduced from 5 to 1
+ Trained unit groups that survive a battle will heal to full strength (i.e. If your group of 4 survives the battle with 1 guy left, it will be replenished to 4 over time). Hat tip to Konan.
+ Insufficient free tiles message added
+ Zone of control from improvements reduced
+ Tech costs increased
+ Number of starting quest locations increased
+ Pedastrians disabled (for now)
+ More aggressively freeing memory
+ Notable locations may now be explored regardless of your level.
+ Notable locations will be spawned NEAR you when you increase your exploration level (but now remember, your opponents can access them too so don't do it if you're surrounded)
+ Objects that have been marked as destroyed are now ignore by subsystems (performance improvement, stability improvement) This is throughout all game systems.
+ LOTS of code to handle the increasing costs in terms of people to run your improvements. If anyone thinks that getting highly talented people remains equally easy as you grow, ask google, microsot or apple about that. It's not.
+ Random events added (not many random events yet though)
+ Pioneers are still trained as individuals
+ Units move faster by default on the map (animation-wise)
+ Units move A LOT faster in tactical battle (let us know if it's too fast)
+ Minor factions removed. Sorry guys, they're just too lame to live for now.
+ New notable locations added to provide weapons, armor, and other "stuff"

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Quoting seanw3,

reply 50

I have begun to realize the fundamental flaw with forums is that we all respond faster and in greater number than it is realistic to expect from the developers of the game. We may all come to a consensus here about quality and hopes and the vitality of the game, but no one is going to change anything. I think it is time to just wait till January 2012 to see if the game is any good.

I am assuming that is when the game will actually come out give a fall release date.

Very true; we think our ideas should be accepted and implemented as fast as we can think them up, or at the very least that the devs should be responding to us and showering us with information. It's absurd really - how do we expect them to have time to actually do any work?

As for the release date, no one has said Fall 2011 for a long time. In fact, elsewhere (recently) Froggy said that he doesn't really expect it before 2012.

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That was more so a comment about release dates being absurd estimations.

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Quoting seanw3,

reply 52

That was more so a comment about release dates being absurd estimations.

Ah. Still, I stand by my statements

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Hey there everyone, it has been a while since ive posted

What happened to the game? I was happy knowing that 1.3 was out, maybee a chance to continue the campaign mode with a book II.... but instead, i found myself without janusk... i miss him badly... and what happened to the zoom? Before i could zoom it in the city to actually watch all the details, now it doesnt go that far... bring the zoom back, please...

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Quoting mastroego,

reply 29

Quoting AlLanMandragoran, reply 27

I think you're missing the point. Some of the people "bitching" have spent hours if not days of their time playtesting, modding, AND reporting issues. The fact these severe issues make it through QA into a "final" patch is frustrating beyond belief. I understand there is a difference between a drive-by forum poster who says something like "GAWD, this game sux" and someone like Heavenfall or others who have invested an incredible amount of time trying to partner with the devs to improve the game.

I admire you, Heavenfall, maniakos and the others for this, but honestly I don't know how you're doing it. The game is too boring to even test it and frankly the developers aren't listening.

Not 2 weeks ago I said that EWOM's updates seem directionless and wasteful. Here's another release to prove my point. Time passes and issues just go back & fort in a circular pattern. Yet for some reason the developers think this a worthy endevour, while they go about saying how FE will rock and receive high praise and a high metacritic score. They seem convinced everything they do is golden, that the AI can be worked in at the last possible moment etcetera etcetera, while we, the audience, are already spotting potentially game-breaking issues even with FE. They seem oblivious to our feedback, exactly as they were before EWOM's release. Well, if they have to wake up to reality once again, at least they won't be able to say that they hadn't been warned and had no way to see it coming.

Of course I might be wrong but this is how it looks like from this side. And I think this should count as helpful feedback too, to an extent.

I believe that they read our posts even if they aren't answering to us. The thought that we will have to live with 1.30 till FE comes out scares me to death.

There's really no trick about how we're doing it, just patience. I have invested a lot of time in this, even before release cause I believe in the idea of this game. The devs are commited as well, either in WoM or in FE.

The truth is that the players don't know how the sausage factory works and they don't really care. Being a software engineer I can understand that this will take time, a lot of time, and they're focusing on FE which is fine by me.

Whining doesn't help, making 100 requests per post doesn't help either. Once they're done and come out of the kitchen, they will talk to us. Till then I suggest you take a break for a few months and go play all those new games that are coming out. If anything else we're getting FE for free, so it's a win win thing.

There's nothing to see here, move along....

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Quoting TorinReborn,

reply 48

Uff, I finally played Age of Wonder Shadow something () this weekend and from the moment I started it it felt like a much superior product then EWoM. From the more pleasing to the eye art style to the better and more spells, to 10x better and more interesting combat.

I knew about the game from before but I always thought it was just another HoM&M clone. If I knew it was a Master of Magic clone with better graphics I would have played it years ago

Anyways, now I think even less about EWoM, and expect even less of FE.

You may want to go to some AOW:SM sites and download units/maps etc and there is a unofficial patch from a site called Age of Wonders Heaven which addresses a lot in the game. And you can create your own units and heros to enhance the game. I have over a 1000 units more than the game came out with many my firneds and I created and some I downloaded.

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Quoting aLap,

reply 49

Quoting TorinReborn,
reply 48
Uff, I finally played Age of Wonder Shadow something () this weekend and from the moment I started it it felt like a much superior product then EWoM. From the more pleasing to the eye art style to the better and more spells, to 10x better and more interesting combat.

Now that you mention it, I happen to agree with your comparison of Elemental with a game released in 2004. Game mechanics aside, I have quite a dislike with Elemental's art style. I feel that only a minority of gamers would be attracted by it when compared with the more eye-candy look of a gem like Age of Wonders. The GUI alone puts Elemental's to shame.

Here's to a vastly improved FE.

I agree the art style in Elemental is very ugly and blah. This is the one thing I never liked about the game. FE looks better but it has the same basic ugly art style but hopefully the game play will be good and if so I can over look the uglyness of the game.

Everyone that I have shown the game to (back when I was trying to get people to play it) all said that it was an ugly looking game.

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Quoting maniakos,

reply 55

Quoting mastroego,
reply 29

Quoting AlLanMandragoran, reply 27

I think you're missing the point. Some of the people "bitching" have spent hours if not days of their time playtesting, modding, AND reporting issues. The fact these severe issues make it through QA into a "final" patch is frustrating beyond belief. I understand there is a difference between a drive-by forum poster who says something like "GAWD, this game sux" and someone like Heavenfall or others who have invested an incredible amount of time trying to partner with the devs to improve the game.

I admire you, Heavenfall, maniakos and the others for this, but honestly I don't know how you're doing it. The game is too boring to even test it and frankly the developers aren't listening.

Not 2 weeks ago I said that EWOM's updates seem directionless and wasteful. Here's another release to prove my point. Time passes and issues just go back & fort in a circular pattern. Yet for some reason the developers think this a worthy endevour, while they go about saying how FE will rock and receive high praise and a high metacritic score. They seem convinced everything they do is golden, that the AI can be worked in at the last possible moment etcetera etcetera, while we, the audience, are already spotting potentially game-breaking issues even with FE. They seem oblivious to our feedback, exactly as they were before EWOM's release. Well, if they have to wake up to reality once again, at least they won't be able to say that they hadn't been warned and had no way to see it coming.

Of course I might be wrong but this is how it looks like from this side. And I think this should count as helpful feedback too, to an extent.

I believe that they read our posts even if they aren't answering to us. The thought that we will have to live with 1.30 till FE comes out scares me to death.

There's really no trick about how we're doing it, just patience. I have invested a lot of time in this, even before release cause I believe in the idea of this game. The devs are commited as well, either in WoM or in FE.

The truth is that the players don't know how the sausage factory works and they don't really care. Being a software engineer I can understand that this will take time, a lot of time, and they're focusing on FE which is fine by me.

Whining doesn't help, making 100 requests per post doesn't help either. Once they're done and come out of the kitchen, they will talk to us. Till then I suggest you take a break for a few months and go play all those new games that are coming out. If anything else we're getting FE for free, so it's a win win thing.

There's nothing to see here, move along....

I think you guys miss the point of a forum. It is here for several reasons, to discuss, argue, suggest, and gain information about a product. There are going to be disagreements with the direction of the products, there are going to be many suggestions etc. And people are going to go to the forums and post until the product comes out then after it is out they are going to post about the product after words.

This is what a forum is for so telling people that there is no point in posting here until the game comes out is absurd. If you don’t like the topic of a thread then simply don’t read it. No amount of telling people not to post is going to get you anywhere.

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woow

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I agree with everyone that says they should simply drop all support for EWOM. This game is simply too boring to give a crap about. Despite the changes behind the curtain I, as a casual gamer who doesn't care about the .1s of everytyhing, just can't get myself to give a shit about this game anymore. It's simply boring and ugly and empty. The potential (and it was massive) simply won't be fulfilled no matter how many patches are made as I can't see "fun" being something you can plug into it anymore.

I promised myself I'd only say nice things so that work on 1.4 would continue.. but really, I'd just prefer you pull ALL your people on FE because with each failed "patch/update" on EWOM I'm even losing faith in FE. I hope to the flying spaghetti monster I'm wrong.

So yeah, let EWOM stay dead.. there's no saving it seeing it was DOA.

Thanks for trying, I do appreciate it, and i know it must hurt to have your baby suck, but suck it does. Period. Chalk it up as a lesson learned and (hopefully) move on.

Good luck, I'll see you in about 1.5 years when I assume (based on history here) FE will be playable. Good thing I get it for free.

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Quoting seanw3,

reply 50

I have begun to realize the fundamental flaw with forums is that we all respond faster and in greater number than it is realistic to expect from the developers of the game.

That's an organizational and communications issue, not a fundamental problem.

A standard workflow is:

Bug/feature goes into system, hours are assigned to it, it's attached to a milestone/release number or marked "duplicate" or "won't fix". Comments can be added to it, it might get pushed back, etc etc. That's all very normal.

The issue is on the customer interfacing. You don't see the bug #, see the comments, see what milestone it's assigned to, etc. Often, complaints on the forums might not even make it into the bug tracker depending on how the company runs things.

It'd be interesting to have a customer facing on the above. So when someone complaints about X,Y or Z a customer rep could simply link to the bug report where you could track the status of the issue. Even if it got pushed back or marked "won't fix" (for whatever reason), you'd at least know a human being had hands on the issue and your request wasn't lost on deaf ears.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

I'm on a lot of forums and for the most part, developers aren't usually supposed to read them because the entitlement attitude of some (not most) forum goers is soul sucking.

I, on the other hand, am one of those entitled hyper-critical jerks from the forums thus, I look at criticism as karma-retribution for all those years on usenet whining about Civ 1 and Xcom and MOM.

I agree with most (but not all) the criticism leveled here. It's always a tough call between what makes business sense and what is a matter of principle.

I had a talk with Derek today on this very issue about the decision to move Fallen Enchantress from Fall 2011 to Winter 2012 and that this would add $1M + to the budget. There's no way we'd recover that since most WOM buyers are getting FE for free. But luckily for me (And you guys) we can afford to do this.

At the end of the day, as some long time Stardockers know, I don't really care about the money side. I just want to make good games. I wish we could make both WOM and FE great games. But I don't have enough physical people to make both great games. So all I can do is ensure FE is great and do my best on my own time to make WOM something we all can say "Hey, this is pretty good."

If I had infinite resources, I'd put huge amounts onto the Dynasty system - for example. I hopefully am not the only person who sees the potential in Elemental's dynasty system if we allowed the sovereign to grow old and die and pass it on to their heirs. Anyway, my point is, we're on the same page. It's usually very mundane, boring issues holding us up. I can't even find a lead developer for the studio. Michigan is a great place to live!

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 62

... to move Fallen Enchantress from Fall 2011 to Winter 2012 ...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo.................!

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1M dollars? You are a good person. Now onto standard forum talk:

I can haz FE beta? You guys are taking forever. This game can't be as good as [insert game from a decade ago here]. Bear Calvary! The mods will work for both games right? I hate paintings and therefore the graphics are terrible, respectively. How long is one turn in FE? The beta isn't even out yet and I can already tell there is too much city spam.

But seriously, BEAR CALVARY!!!!!!

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what, no BEAR ARTILLERY?

harpo

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Heavenfall

Join Date 07/2008

+441

that's more than a year away... are we talking anticipated release, or does that include post-release support/content? Or has a decision not been made? You tease...

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I think Winter 2012 might mean Q1 2012 on this occasion, because what else would you call "this winter but not this year". Could be wrong though.

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People, Winter means Dec - Feb.

Lemme spell it out to yall

Spring: March - May

Summer: June - August

Fall: Sep - Nov

Winter: Dec - Feb

Everybody thinks Winter means christmas just because they played in the snow around that time every year

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As you say, Winter is Dec-Feb. If you say "Winter 2012", is it the one that begins in Dec 2012 or the first few months of 2012.

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If there's 15 guys on the team and everybody got 3000$/month (7SEK = 1$) then 1 month of development on Fallen Enchantress costs 45.000$.

5 months of developertime (5 x 45.000) is 235.000$.

10 months of developertime (10 x 45.000) is 450.000$.

Damn! Doesn't add up

Either there's far more people on the team OR they're really going to take another friggin year....

OR somebody is seriously overpayed (Brad mentioned his hottub consuming large amounts of power once....)

Sir_Linque

Your time to guess

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Quoting Campaigner,

reply 70

If there's 15 guys on the team and everybody got 3000$/month (7SEK = 1$) then 1 month of development on Fallen Enchantress costs 45.000$.

5 months of developertime (5 x 45.000) is 235.000$.

10 months of developertime (10 x 45.000) is 450.000$.

Damn! Doesn't add up

Either there's far more peopleon the team OR they're really going to take another friggin year....

OR somebody is seriously overpayed (Brad mentioned his hottub consuming large amounts of power once....)

Sir_Linque

Your time to guess

Labor is only about half of the cost of running a studio. On top of that, please send me the resumes of good developers who will work for $45k a year.

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scifi1950

Join Date 02/2005

+121

Quoting Frogboy,

reply 71

Labor is only about half of the cost of running a studio. On top of that, please send me the resumes of good developers who will work for $45k a year.

Interesting. I would have thought that labor would be closer to 75% in a software studio. Maybe you only amortize all that fancy gear over 1 year because once 1 programmer gets a new rig everyone has to 1 up them. (Real Nerd rage) (and yes I'm a dreaded bean counter, but we like to play games too) On second thought I bet it's the cost of Pizza delivery!

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 71

Labor is only about half of the cost of running a studio. On top of that, please send me the resumes of good developers who will work for $45k a year.

Let's see....

Coffee machine
Buildingrent
Electricity
Occasional new computer

That's seriously all I can think of and that can't be so much considering companies get good taxcuts and I remember you saying Stardock got good taxcuts or something similar. And in the US you might be able to own the soil of the company (impossible here in Sweden since you must STILL pay a yearly fee for houses even though you've bought the soil).

I don't know the wages in the US but 3000$ is 2100 euro and my friend who's a warehouse worker gets out 1500 euro a month. Thus, 2100 euro is a good pay if you get out that much but then again I have no idea how much you get out vs how much goes to tax and social security fees in the US.

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 62

It's shit like this that makes me feel like a substandard human being for griping about the development of FE. For the record, you all are a class act, wonderful human beings, and I wish you the best with the next installment of the series.

Also, the research and magic systems need a little bit of work.

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Heavenfall

Join Date 07/2008

+441

Quoting Campaigner,

reply 73

Quoting Frogboy, reply 71
Labor is only about half of the cost of running a studio. On top of that, please send me the resumes of good developers who will work for $45k a year.

Let's see....

Coffee machine
Buildingrent
Electricity
Occasional new computer

That's seriously all I can think of and that can't be so much considering companies get good taxcuts and I remember you saying Stardock got good taxcuts or something similar. And in the US you might be able to own the soil of the company (impossible here in Sweden since you must STILL pay a yearly fee for houses even though you've bought the soil).

I don't know the wages in the US but 3000$ is 2100 euro and my friend who's a warehouse worker gets out 1500 euro a month. Thus, 2100 euro is a good pay if you get out that much but then again I have no idea how much you get out vs how much goes to tax and social security fees in the US.

I can only give you an example from Sweden. Every salary I pay is instantly multiplied by 1.3 in cost, because of social taxes. So if someone has a pay of 35k sek (6k usd) I have to pay another 10 on top of that which they never see on any income statement. Then there's office rent, computers ("occasional equipment" doesn't cut it, I'd say it's around 10-15% of people's salary every month), office supplies (10-20k for every employee each year), insurances (oh, there's a hole bunch of those... employee insurances, deliver-on-time insurances, office insurances...). Now we've mostly covered the show-running costs. You want marketing? You want to deliver an actual physical product? Who's doing Quality Assurance? Is there support? Is there Sales? Who's negotiating with the publishers before and after a deal? Who's handling legal stuff? Who's doing the book-keeping and other economic stuff? That's extra. Extra costs, that is, not extra as in optional.

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