Getting the bugs worked out thats great, adding more team members thats wonderful, what about multiplayer? Update Please?

Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

To be honest, i would be more excited about multiplayer for galciv than Elemental!

Elemental is not really offering too much to entice me towards multiplayer... but there are some things which would be intruguing in multiplayer - such as dynasties (if it was much quicker)?

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I have been around games for 30 years, at one point I was even a tester and I have seen them all. Age of Wonders Shadow Magic in Multiplayer (Play By EMail) is the most fun I have ever had with videogames. Games used to last years, by playing one turn a day. Amazing experience: certain days were dedicated to some special event in the game, others were kind of slow, that really made me live in the game like I have never experienced before or since.

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Add me to the list of those curious about multiplayer, particularly tactical battles. Not that I think it should take priority over balancing/adding to the singleplayer game, no no, I don't expect anything related to multiplayer to get any attention soon - but it would be nice to know vaguely where it falls on the priority list: "we plan to work on it after 1.2" or "maybe we'll get to it around the second expansion" or "what, some crazy people still care about multiplayer?"

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I recall, multiplayer started with "Doom", though playing Doom gave me a headache.. havent touched another FPS since. The best multiplayer experience I had was with Age of Empires (both I and II) on a LAN. We were just 3 players, but we set rules that no one can attack until they reach the Imperial Age, that meant no initial rushing. In one game we were so evenly balanced we ran out of forest (forests were cut and the wood sold in exchange for gold/stone). The recent multiplayer game I tried was Sins Diplomacy, but the internet laaaaaag caused me some problems, plus the games were quite short due to early rushing, the one who explores the most in Sins almost always wins.

Elemental MP would be good, there would be lots of tactics to explore, but the RULE should be, no early rushing. Say you cannot attack till your City is Level 5.

Speaking of Elemental Multiplayer, havent seen a game in progress for quite a while.. prior to 1.1, I did see a few games (mostly *one* game, only once did I see 3 games in progress).

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If you can't attack early, there is no point to the early units. In my opinion, if you're getting to the end game units, your opponent is doing it wrong.

There is no such thing as a rush. There is such a thing as too little defense, too late.

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I have to admit I agree with RenegadePeon. My large games last about 250-300 turns. I guess my late game is around turn 250. I have yet to see any late game units that people talk about. To me it's about all-out attacking until the Kingdom cut-scene appears.

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Quoting RenegadePeon,

reply 5

If you can't attack early, there is no point to the early units. In my opinion, if you're getting to the end game units, your opponent is doing it wrong.

There is no such thing as a rush. There is such a thing as too little defense, too late.

I'm not usually in favor of house rules, but let me play devil's advocate here: if there's nothing to stop you from attacking early and deciding the game right then and there (one way or another), then you're right that someone is doing it wrong if you ever get to end game units. That's really a shame, because some people want to use end game units, and that's exactly why they come up with so-called no rush rules. Granted that by adopting such a rule you lose the opportunity to use early units in order to experience end game units instead, it's a tradeoff; some people prefer it one way, some the other. Nothing wrong with either playstyle, it just means you and gsitetfs probably won't want to play the same game

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The problem is that players who decree "no rush" are also the players who could reach late-game if they'd actually learn to play effectively - they're still going to get crushed in "no rush," particularly in a turn-based game where reflex is a non-issue, because they're still not actually good at playing effectively.

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Werewindlefr

Join Date 03/2007

+28

Elemental MP would be good, there would be lots of tactics to explore, but the RULE should be, no early rushing. Say you cannot attack till your City is Level 5.

I don't want to play the game you're talking about. Not only that, but it also makes a good deal of the strategic depth go away; if people want to play like that, they don't need to have it hard-coded into the game, they have an spoken agreement before starting the game or use a mod.

you're right that someone is doing it wrong if you ever get to end game units.

Then the game needs to be fixed, or the players need to learn how to play. It's not a "rushing" problem, it's a mechanics problem. But while rush tactics can almost remove the "end-game" level from the game, "No-Rush" removes everything else. In a 4X, 3 of the Xs are actually happening mostly early-mid game.

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Quoting Corbeaubm,

reply 8

The problem is that players who decree "no rush" are also the players who could reach late-game if they'd actually learn to play effectively - they're still going to get crushed in "no rush," particularly in a turn-based game where reflex is a non-issue, because they're still not actually good at playing effectively.

I had to respond to that!! Me was "unbeatable" in the Age of Empires LAN games.. one reason could be that other two opponents were my younger brother (He's younger by almost 10 years) and his friend..

PS: I also beat the "Ultima Weapon" in FF-X, and all the "Dark Aeons", too in the "International Version" of FF-X. (following the guide by Split Infinity). Just showing off some of my war medals there,

Elemental MP would be good, there would be lots of tactics to explore, but the RULE should be, no early rushing. Say you cannot attack till your City is Level 5.

I don't want to play the game you're talking about. Not only that, but it also makes a good deal of the strategic depth go away; if people want to play like that, they don't need to have it hard-coded into the game, they have an spoken agreement before starting the game or use a mod.

you're right that someone is doing it wrong if you ever get to end game units.

Then the game needs to be fixed, or the players need to learn how to play. It's not a "rushing" problem, it's a mechanics problem. But while rush tactics can almost remove the "end-game" level from the game, "No-Rush" removes everything else. In a 4X, 3 of the Xs are actually happening mostly early-mid game.

Yep, that was what I was referring to, an agreement between players not to attack before a certain level of achievement/civilization has been met. Age of Empires was certainly not hard coded this way.

Early rush means the game could be over in five to fifteen minutes, when all you want to do is add a +1 to your "Win" stat. There was a post by FrogBoss about that, concerning the game Starcraft "Its not the game, its the players". Most players want to win in the first five minutes, they rush, if they win, game is over in 5 minutes. If they lose the initial rush, they quit. Either way the game is over in five minutes.

"Different strokes for different folks"

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I play large games that take a few hours to play/complete so 15 minute wins are not my thing. I don't think that the no-rush rule is conducive to multi-player as it creates an artificial environment. Take the title, Elemental WAR of Magic, hell War is it's middle name. I think it is unwise to play what is basically a war game as you would, say, Sim City. In fact, I used to play Evony and the people who just wanted to play in their sandbox and not war were reminded (by word and deed) that this (meaning Evony) was NOT Sim City.

If you like a good war game play Gal Civ or Gal Civ II on suicidal. If you're not pressing your military advantage early you will be outspent both financially and technologically. Your end game unit theory will be moot as war will come calling long before you get to end game units.

My point is, if you like Sim City or some other pure world builder then fine, get and enjoy same. I prefer large sandboxes full of AI or real opponents where the game is to kick out all of the non-friendlies. EWOM is a war game to me so I will play it as such.

Good Day!

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Dont get me wrong if they told me today they were scrapping Elemntal for a multiplayer version of GalCiv2 id cry tears of joy. GC2 is probably one of my fav games of all time.

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Stardock any word on MP?

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Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

Quoting Aww Nuts,

reply 11

I play large games that take a few hours to play/complete so 15 minute wins are not my thing. I don't think that the no-rush rule is conducive to multi-player as it creates an artificial environment. Take the title, Elemental WAR of Magic, hell War is it's middle name. I think it is unwise to play what is basically a war game as you would, say, Sim City. In fact, I used to play Evony and the people who just wanted to play in their sandbox and not war were reminded (by word and deed) that this (meaning Evony) was NOT Sim City.

If you like a good war game play Gal Civ or Gal Civ II on suicidal. If you're not pressing your military advantage early you will be outspent both financially and technologically. Your end game unit theory will be moot as war will come calling long before you get to end game units.

My point is, if you like Sim City or some other pure world builder then fine, get and enjoy same. I prefer large sandboxes full of AI or real opponents where the game is to kick out all of the non-friendlies. EWOM is a war game to me so I will play it as such.

Good Day!

I don't quite get your theory on Galciv2? I have never noticed any early military advantage on suicidal? If i play suicidal, my typical military advantage is the phantom dream i put in the minds of the AI's!! My forces will remain ineffective for 'actual' combat until i have some late game weaponry.

Then when i do attack the AI, even on suicidal they seem incapable of sustaining an effective resistance once the initial fleets have slogged it out, then the AI just flops over and dies. It is very difficult to get a truly challenging AI that will apply heavy pressure over an extended period of time unless it is busy massacring me and then i have to resort to tricky tactics, which i hate doing. What i am saying is, i want a true 'slogfest'. Two super powers duking it out, strike and counter strike, advance and retreat. Any such battle in Galciv is always brief because the AI is in such a hurry to give up, and that pisses me off no end!

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In the early game of Galciv2 you can usually overwhelm the AI with early units to the point of wiping out your neighbors (majors and of course minors). With the increase in tech through the conquered planets I flood the tech tree and get to mid-game units earlier than the AI. Then (you guessed it) there is another round of beat-the-crap out of your neighbors. This is followed by more tech and the late game unit build and subsequent clean-up. I mostly use *Alpha strikes to start and end wars quickly. I don't prefer the long protracted wars that the AI has so much trouble with. Also, the longer the game goes the more likely the majors will be allied, making Alpha strikes that much more expensive.

I tried looking you up in Gal Civ 2 metaverse but it wasn't under Mystikmind.

Alpha strike= taking over all of the planets and resources of another Civ in one turn

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Anyone feel like they are specifically ignoring this particular question?

lol surrounding the AI and taking all there planets in one go isnt very sporting, what difficulty are you playing on, higher difficulties they dont let you get that close without responding.

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MP might be fun if we can get a game mode where you only fight tactical battles. Get a bunch of gildar and resources, build a bunch of units and then battle!

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Well if they give us a full mutiplayer version of single player we can mod it anyway we want. Much easier to start from the top and work our way down, then start with a half done version and work our way up.

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Multiplayer would be an opportunity for the Devs to play and get a better understanding of what tactics are so broken and why. That's about the only beneficial thing that would come out of it atm.

Early game play would be all about getting Sovereign + champions buffed up as quickly as possible and trying to find opponent's city. Late gameplay wouldn't exist.

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Nah we don't need multiplayer updates right now. Fix the CORE game first and maybe in a year or two they can work on multiplayer. No use jumping back and forth from one to the other and who cares about CivV's mper this is Elemental a GREATER game and it doesn't even need multiplayer really. They could give the money back to just the multiplayers and still comne out smellin like a rose in sales.

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Elemental has the change to be a better game then Civ5. Currently Single player to Single player they dont have enough polish to even compare atm. MP in CIV5 is lazy and broken. But Elemenatals doesnt function right either. Companies have alot to do before a game comes out, and its a long process. But few companies are getting it done consistantly anymore.

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