Hound

Join Date 03/2008

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[IDEAS] Magic system overhaul

I find myself wondering what the new magic system will be like. This one is the big deal for me in Elemental.

Myself, I would like to see a change in how spells are categorized so it would be possible to specialize in major domains like Fire or Life magic. What we now have as books (Summoning, Enchantment etc.) could be changed into techniques or subcategories.

At Sovereign creation you would choose your focus in magic from 7 major domains:

Fire
Ice
Air
Earth
Life
Death
Arcane

Then each of these domains would contain spells that would fall into Invocation / Enchantment / Summoning subcategory. That way you could further specialize into combat magic, unit/city enchantment or summoning spells. You could have equipment boosting all Fire spells, or all Summoning spells respectively. The system would be very clean and flexible with just 7 domains and 3 techniques to use those domains. And we'd have Sovereigns with a strong magical identity (or the lack of one in favor of combat prowess).

The Arcane domain would have all the mind/spirit spells, illusion magic, teleport etc. that don't fit in any of the other categories, much like Sorcery in MoM.

It would be cool to have Shards for Life / Death / Arcane as well. They wouldn't have to be crystals similar to elemental shards though. The 'shard' of Life could be a tree and the Arcane 'shard' could be a Magic circle.

I realize this kind of system would be closer to MoM or AoW:SM, but it would also be deeper than either of those games. Not re-inventing the wheel but perfecting it so to speak.

I'd be very interested to hear what the devs have in mind for the magic system!

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https://forums.elementalgame.com/386267

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Winnihymn your suggestion has merits too. I like the combining of books and shards for spells.

The one thing I dislike with the spellbooks is how in that system the map generator chooses what type of spellcaster you become. I just played a game where I started next to two fire shards and that forced me to specialize in Fire when what I wanted was Air. I would move that choice into Sovereign creation. So you could create a Sovereign who already has a magical identity and a look to match it, like a Fire mage with wild red hair or an icy witch of the north.

Another idea of mine was to move the shards in appropriate terrain so a specialized mage would know where to look and be able to find them. Air shards high up on mountain tops with a flying requirement to claim. Earth shards underground, with intense gravity around them to disable weaker creatures. Ice shards in arctic areas and fire shards in volcanic locations, protected by intense heat and cold. Life nodes in forests, death nodes in barren areas and arcane nodes in ruined magic temples.

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Examples of spells to go with my suggestion:

Earth

Stonefist (Invocation) - single target physical damage with knockdown
Bombardment (Invocation, global) - gives target city a rock barrage
Stoneskin (Enchantment) - gives more armor
Summon Xorn (Summoning) - summons earth creature that burrows through ground

Fire

Fireball (Invocation) - AoE damage + damage over time, tactical
Flaming Weapon (Enchantment, unit) - adds fire damage to weapon
Circle of Fire (Enchantment, global) - sheathes a city in a protective wall of fire
Fire Elemental (Summoning) - summons a creature

Arcane

Eldritch Blast (Invocation) - AoE damage + knockdown
Repulsion (Invocation) - throws enemies around the mage back a few squares
Binding (Enchantment) - immobilizes a target with chains of magical force
Spell Flux (Enchantment, global) - slows mana regeneration globally
Eldritch Blade (Summoning) - summons an invisible force that animates a weapon
Alter Reality (Enchantment, global) - a powerful illusion makes units travel in random directions

Life

Heal (Invocation) - instant healing
Starfires (Invocation) - damages undead, blind living creatures
Regenerate (Enchantment) - healing over time

Death

Wither (Invocation) - single target drain life and strength debuff
Wave of Fatigue (Enchantment) - AoE strength debuff
Curse of Shadows (Enchantment, global) - persistent shadow over a city gives gives penalties across the board
Ghoul call (Summoning) - summons a pack of undead

Just a few on the top of my head.

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Hey, Hound, good to see you again. Don't give me credit; these were ideas that you helped inspire as well.

Look at Segallion's post on page 2 of that link; he quickly outlines a place where you can pick to have your sovereign effectively BE a fire node (or two, or three) by using your starting picks. It doesn't give you spells, it gives you a node count. At the time we discussed this, nodes didn't give you anything except the ability to cast certain spells. Now that they give mana, we'd need to rethink that a bit, but I thought it was an elegant way to handle the customization point. Want a fire caster? Take 3 levels in fire specialization. You still interact with the spells as books, but you now unlock up to level 3 fire spells from the start (once the books are researched to a high enough level). Then, you don't have to worry what nodes you get; they just become mana generators for you (unless you luck into more fire shards). But you paid for that by not having other skills at setup. It solved the problem, IMO, of people who didn't want to be casters; they could take their points in other areas, and make a warrior king, rather than a mage.

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So, I found myself rethinking about that concept that we were putting together back in the day. I brushed off my old notes from July where we were working this concept, and I thought I'd post this up. I don't know how to post an excel file, but if someone tells me how to, I'll be happy to share it.

It's a matrix of spells. All shards are L1-L5 (Fire 1 through Fire 5, Earth 1 through Earth 5, etc) and are "unlocked" when you posess that number of shards (see the earlier post about letting us have the ability to "pick" 1-3 shards during channeler set up). Each spellbook (Thaumaturgy, Evocation, etc) has 1-6 levels, all researched through magical research (NOT spell research). You'd research Introductory Thaumaturgy, then Basic Thaumaturgy, then Skilled, then Complex, then Advanced, then Master Thaumaturgy (Level 1 to Level 6). A spell becomes available for research in your spell book when you have a certain number of shards and a certain spellbook. A spell improves as you increase the level of spellbook (Introductory through Master). I never finished populating the chart, but I'll post it here so folks can get the idea. There's two places to cast spells, in the strategic map, and in tactical battle; those are designated by T or S in front of the spell name. If the formatting is awry, I apologize; I don't know how to do this any better.

Type ->	Thaumaturgy	Enchantment	Evocation	Summoning	Geomancy	Necromancy	Divination	Alteration	Transmutation	Abjuration
Effects ->	Change enemy stats	change items	direct damage	summons	map changing (base tiles)	affecting the dead	charming creatures/players	map changing (special tiles)	city changing spells	changing stats
Fire 1	S:Smoke: halves sight for 2 rounds/level	T: Fire Shield: -2 damage/level from archery	T: Burning Touch: does 3 points/level damage, range of 1	S: Summon Fire Imp with 2 hp/level	S: Scorch: Turns target tile to desert for 5 rounds/level	T: Pyre: Ignites bodies of the dead, making them impassible for 2 rounds/level	T: Haze: target's ranged attack accuracy reduced by -2/level	S: Philosopher's Stone:Target gold vein gains +1 gold/level	S: Magic Hammers: +1/level materials	T: Enrage: Target -1 def and +1 atk/level
Fire 2	T:Blinding Flash: target loses 2 action points/level							S: Famine: Target city loses 2 pop/level		S: Brilliance: Target gains +1 int/level
Fire 3	T:Heat Armor: -2 def/level for 3 rounds				T: Wall of Fire: Summons a wall of fire for 3 rounds that extends for 1 tile/level and does 3 damage/level to any unit standing in it			S: Magic Forge: Doubles the metal output of a targetted metal resource square for 3 turns/level
Fire 4	S:Fire Halo: Target is visible at any distance for 10 rounds/level						S: Mezmerize: Increases relations with target faction for 5 turns/level	S: Mirage: Makes an Oasis appear in target tile for 2 turns/level (not a real food source, but AI sees it as one and will react accordingly
Fire 5	T: Fiery Doom:Magic Resistance reduced by 10/level	S: Burning Weapons: Target stack gets +2 atk/level, consumes 1 mana/unit	T: Fireball: Target unit and 1 tile/level radius are engulfed in flame. Target takes 15+5n damage, radius takes 10+3n damage, where n is the level	S: Summon Greater Fire Elemental: Summons a greater fire elemental	S: Raise Volcano: Raises a volcano in the land over time, making the land unusable. Occurs over 20-2n turns, where n is the level	T: Infernal Link: Drain 2hp/level from target and give it to caster for 1 round/level	S: Call to Arms: Unit in the build queue of the target city is instantly completed. Mana cost is 200-20n, where n is the level	S: Pillage: Reduce the output of a targetted fertile land to 1 for 5 turns/level	S: Raze: Target city loses 1 building/level at random	T: Aborb Energy:Abjured unit drains 1hp/level additional damage to target (in addition to standard damage) and adds 1hp/level to unit health (vampiric strike)
Earth 1	S: Mud: Target dexterity is reduced by 2/level	T: Keen edge: metal bladed weapons get +1 atk for 1 round/level			S: Raise Land					S: Stoneskin: Target defense increased 2/level
Earth 2	S: Obscure Road: Target unit is unable to make use of roads for 3 turns/level		T: Stoning: 3-5/level stones (acc:99, atk:2) strike the target		S: Convert Land: Land in a 1 tile/level radius is changed to faction preferred land
Earth 3	T:Slow: combat speed reduced by 1/level				S: Raise Mountain
Earth 4	S: Earthquake: Target stack is split up, individual units are propelled 1 tile/level in random direction.
Earth 5	T: Petrify: Target is turned to stone for 2 turn/level (0 atk, 99 Def)	S: Diamond Armor: Target unit cannot be damaged by physical attacks (def 99), magic resistance reduced by 50-5n, where n is the level	T: Stone Prison: Target cannot move and has dodge reduced to zero for 1 turn/level	S: Summon Greater Earth Elemental: Summons a greater earth elemental	T: Cracks Call: Opens a fissure under a target unit, save vs. dexterity at -1/level to avoid being swallowed up by the earth (completely gone, just like that original MOM cracks call that made baby Jesus cry)	S: Sacrifice: Sovereign is killed (loss of mana, transport back to capital, incapacity), but all of the units with him at the time are healed 10hp/level	S: Foundation: Construction project in the target city's queue is instantly completed. Mana cost is 200-20n, where n is the level.	S: Blood of the Earth: Targetted city doubles growth rate for 5 turns/level	T: Sloth: Target city production halved for 3 turns/level	S: Terra Cotta Army: Stack is placed in stasis (cannot move, cannot be attacked, uses no resources)
Air 1	S: Gasp: Air is withdrawn from the target tile, making it impassible for mundane troops to pass through for 1 turn/level				S: Scry: Unclouds FOW in a radius of 1 tile/level for one turn				S: Learned Lands: +1/level research
Air 2	S: Duststorm: creates a duststorm with radius 3 that lasts for 2 turns/level. Units in the dust storm have visibility reduced by half.
Air 3	T: Whirlwind: Target is moved back from caster 2 tiles/level
Air 4	T: Vortex: Creates a vortex that pulls all enemy units toward it at 1/2 tile/level/turn. Lasts for 3 turns.		T: Buffet: Unit is hit by strong winds, causing 4hp/level of damage
Air 5	S: Forget: Target loses 1 experience level/spell level for 1 turn/level	T: Phantom Form: Target unit is replicated. Replicate has identical stats, but no dodge and no defense. Heros and Sovereigns cannot assume phantom form.	T: Ward: Targetted spellcaster is unable to cast spells for 1turn/level	S:Summon Greater Air Elemental: Summons a greater Air Elemental	S: Awareness: Removes FOW over the entire map for 1 turn/level	T: Mercurial Visage: Target gains +1 combat speed/level. This resets casting usage as well (yes, you can cast on another caster to give them a second cast in a round).	S: Invisibility: Target cannot be detected for 2 turns/level	S: Gate: Opens a gate between two friendly cities up to 6 tiles/level away from each other. Cities may only have one gate at a time. Gates cost 3 mana/turn to maintain, and cost 1 mana/unit passing through the gate.	S: Aura of Majesty: Radius of influence of target city is doubled for 2 turns/level	S:Levitate: Unit can pass over all terrain, costs 3 mana/turn
Water 1	T: Rust: Target metal weapons have -1 atk/level for remainder of battle				S: Lower Land				S: Nature's Bounty: Provides +1 food
Water 2	T: Warp Wood: Target archery accuracy -2/level				S: Erode Land
Water 3	S: Floodwaters: Target stack moves randomly for 1 turn/level				S: Submerge Land
Water 4	S: Becalm: Target ship immobilized for 1 turn/level
Water 5	T: Bloat: Target unit swells with liquid, reducing Attack, defense, accuracy, and dodge by 2 points/level	S: Bounty: A healing elixir that restores 5hp/level is summoned into the target unit's inventory. Only one such elixir may exist in inventory at a time.	T: Liquify: All equipped items on target unit are turned to liquid (effectively useless) for 1 turn/level	S:Summon Greater Water Elemental: Summons a greater Water Elemental	S: Return from Atlantis: Targetted water square gives rise to an island with 3-5 tiles/level. Land raising near another land mass will conjoin with the existing land, but not raise it.	T: Greater heal: target unit is healed 20hp/level	S: Wellspring: Target city can support +1/level population per dwelling	S: Honeypot: Targeted square produces Twilight Bees	S: Fertility: City gains 2pop/level	S: Waters of Life: All units in the are gifted with regeneration +1hp/level for 5 turns/level

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I found my original post on the topic, which I will shamelessly link here:

https://forums.elementalgame.com/385974/get;2668180

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