You have to start a new game for the updates to work, just way it is.

Please, please please add mouse/camera invert.  First thing I do in a game is invert the camera, and I can't do that in this game.  I just can't get used to playing a game with the camera controls like this.  Thank you!

well personally "hundreds per turn" doesn't seem very balanced in the first place.  also the monsters are used for leveling up.  i thought everybody was pissed that game was to easy, now its getting more balance, is it to hard?

was refering to later in the game after having researched the appropriate adventure tech.  but anyway: did i forget to mention that i still was never able to equip all my champions with decent gear?  now (if i were to play this game) i would not be able to give them...anything! 

also: how is it that less gold = harder?  to me that just equals dull.  fewer troops of lesser quality = dull

I think what the developer need to do is to reduce the price in the shop, so the hero will able to buy the standard equipment, just as the troop. But, heroes a special because their equipment are not standards. Maybe Stardock should implemented more Hero's special equipment that will make 100 coin is worthy to be bought.

[quote who="Istari" reply="31" id="2774941"]


Quoting thisisretarded,
reply 27

Quoting SirFlak, reply 18Yes they made the monsters worth less but they made it very likely you'd have a gold mine right next to your start area so I feel like that balances fine.

5 gilder per turn balances out the loss of hundreds per turn?  how?  i know the nice stardock person said monster farming was never meant to fuel an economy...but then what IS supposed to fuel the economy?  and what is the point of even having monsters now? 

also - glad that there is an option to turn off the animations in tactical battles lined up for the next update(?), but now i have to continue not playing this game until it is added.  woohoo. 


It's not supposed to balance it out. Players were never intended to be getting hundreds of gildar per turn by farming monsters.

A gold mine provides 5 gildar per turn.

Killing a low level monster, like a wolf, will provide to 3 to 5 gildar for a given kill which is in balance for controlling an entire gold mine. One of the reasons the AI was not competitive in 1.0x is that it was designed to play the game as intended which included killing monsters to supplement income but not as the principle source.

 

 
[/quote]

you seem to be missing the point, it doesn't matter if its what was meant to drive the economy or not, right now its the only real economy. the patch doesn't fix the game, it breaks it more. 3-5 bucks for a lowly wolf, so that worthless 90 dollar staff(for some reason you upped back to 90 from the 43 you had it at before) now takes atleast 18 wolf npcs to pay for it? or 18 turns, if'n you have no other expenses and a gold mine, just for 1 crappy stick, not even talking about real equipment you would want to put on your champions, and if all you got is that stick, all you are really gonna be killing is lowly wolves.  mid game some of those champions cost 200+ bucks, you gonna afford that on a 5 dollar gold mine minus expenses, or some of the town improvements. atleast with the monster farming i could do something. now the game still isn't fun, but i feel like someone has knee capped me too boot.

this is all outta whack. its not a situation you can fix by going after one mechanic irregardless to the consequences of other systems, you have to take the whole situation into account.  until you start patching with that in mind, you are just going to trade one aggrevation for another. or is it the intent to have us ending turn ad naseum, waiting to save up to buy the simpliests of items or twon improvements, or cheapest of champions.

.

Just uploaded the new upgrade, played about 20 turns of my on-going game. There's a significant decrease in gold from monster farming (killed a 25 strength bandit that's normally about 25 gold, I got 4 gold and 1 gold experience). I guess that's one way to balance the AI. Now it's harder to equip armies & outfit champions. Prices in the item shop are the same. One of the neighboring AIs decided to declare war on me since I build a town near their country (I've already flattended two of the other AIs in the first 50 turns). I teleported my soverign plus 9 champions whom I had previously recruited along the way to the city which was under threat (it was pretty far removed). The enemy sovereign was approching (2 squares from my city). I had one very stong 4-man mace group, one 4-man more obsolete observer group, plus my 9 individual champions. They had two fairly strong soldiers with 76 hp, attack 6, and 0 defence, plus a strong 4-man group with something like 135 hp, 24 attack, 9 defense (I think it was). Their soverign was very strong, much stronger than my soverign and any of my single champions alone (since I imbued champion several times, my soverign is not at the top of his form) .. anyway the odds of the outset of the battle were something like 136 vs 124 (strength value), very slightly in my favor. I was able to win the battle losing only my observer group. I killed all four enemy units including the sovereign. at the end I got a whole whopping .. wait for it ... 7 gilder and 1 gilder experience. None of my 9 guys were even able to level-up afterwards. Needless to say, I found this extremely disappointing. It seems to me the reduction in gilder goes hand-in-hand with a reduction in gilder (from experience).

I guess that's one way to balance the AI: reduced gold & experience gained in combat .. not really what I was hoping for though.

I also noticed that woods no longer cost 2 mp to move through. Before, it cost my groups 2 moves to go through woods, now it seems everything is a constant 1 move point to enter. I haven't noticed any other changes as of yet. My magic users seemed to miss a lot in that last battle, but that's not unusual as I need to increase intelligence more when I level up (I typically choose constitution until it gets past 20 as the champs are too weak) .. probably going to have to review my entire approach to champs as now it doesn't seem worth fighting monsters for gold & leveling up .. the item store costs haven't changed .. probably better to forego hiring champions altogether and just spend the money on troops (their costs are cheaper relative to the item shop).

My first impression of the 1.08 upgrade is that there doesn't seem to be any use for champions any more, based upon what I saw in those 20 turns (too expensive, reduced money, and reduced experience in combat = scarcer money is now better spent on troops).

i think what we have here is a bunch of people that got used to a mechanic/exploit and now its gone they are not happy.  if the CTRL + M cheat still works, thats a way to get all the money you want fast.  its pretty simple to me, if you want more gold, then explore a bit and find MORE gold mines.  also, if your neighbor has a gold mine, then fight him and take his.   this is what the game intends for you to do, not supply your entire empire with monster kills.

I'm curious. What is the most amount of gold you been able to generate from multiple goldmines? I don't the reduced pay out so much but if they keep respawning with my area of influence--destroying structures and caravans, then it's kinda of a pain isn't it?

Mellow people, they didnt say that 1.08 was going to balance everything. Give them another couple of patches, they seem to be making some head way on the OOM errors, and they are adjusting the game as needed. Be polite and give them a proper list of pros and cons to help them balance it when they go to do that.

don't get me wrong, i am not saying that everything is perfect.  there are still some problems that need addressing.  i am just saying that the gold mines are suppose to be your main source of income.  that needs more balancing.  i think mainly what needs to be done, is an overall look at:

cost vs gold production vs early/mid/late game.

basically about where you should be at each point.

i think there is alot of confusion out there with the game mechanics.  it would be nice if frogboy would give us a lengthy dev journal on some of the main mechanic points, especially the new stuff thats being added/changed.

[quote who="Stmorpheus" reply="48" id="2775079"]don't get me wrong, i am not saying that everything is perfect.  there are still some problems that need addressing.  i am just saying that the gold mines are suppose to be your main source of income.  that needs more balancing.  i think mainly what needs to be done, is an overall look at:

cost vs gold production vs early/mid/late game.

basically about where you should be at each point.

i think there is alot of confusion out there with the game mechanics.  it would be nice if frogboy would give us a lengthy dev journal on some of the main mechanic points, especially the new stuff thats being added/changed.

[/quote]

i appreciate that, but what i am saying is that you shouldn't run around trying to fix things piecemeal, you want to fix the economy, then fix the economy as a whole, this piecemeal crap doesn't work. where maybe, maybe in 20 patches we might have a working system once they've addressed all the components, but not likely, since hacks were done without regard to other components.

right now i see 1-2 gold mines, that means my entire empire will be running on 10 bucks once i get it built, and  thats including waiting to get the cash to build the pioneer to get to the second gold mine, plus the guards because i can't rely on my champion doing any escorting, plus building up my first town. that is a lot of nothing but ending my turn while waiting for sufficient cash to accomplish anything, i can't even explore because in all likely hood, my weak sauce sovereign will get killed, having no equipment and pinching every penny to build the structures to get spells, to get better troops, equipment, that i can't afford anyway.

sorry there, i don't mean to sound snippy to you, but having istari spout the company line without regard to the content of the post has kinda irratated me, i'm afraid its spilling over into my reply here.

i'd love to hear again how the goal of lowering the loot was not to balance thigns out, cause silly me, i thought the point of the patches were to balance things out. and if you are ignoring things like shop costs, champion costs, building costs, etc, etc. while making changes elsewhere, you will never balance it out.

for the record, i don't expect them to get it right on the first try, but i do expect them to try and take everything into account, or there is no hope of success. i also really don't appreciate being talked down to.