Multiplayer - wrong priority, re-balance game first

Personally I agree. However, you can't blame them for trying to implement a promised "out-of-box" feature as quickly as possible. They are trying to keep their promises. They are developers not politicians.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'm not sure that having multiplayer enabled is going to take away much from anything esle. Since, acording to them they already had it almost ready to go.

Successfully updated karma reason!

While a part of me believes that while game play issues are in flux this is a mistake.. I also see a need for a lot of time tweaking MP as well and having it up and running as these game play issues change does let them look at the changes in both formats.. So as long as we all look at MP as a WIP from the get go it really may be the best way to go....

BTW I myself will not be doing much MP and could live with out it.. But I do know that MP is a fun format that many love and game is going to support it..

Successfully updated karma reason!

I think multiplayer is to hold over people until the AI is finished : P

but yeah I would never play a TBS game multiplayer.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Na, mulitplayer is the most efficient way to see what needs to be fixed. You can half-way fake a single player experience, but multiplayer exposes all. If they delayed multiplayer, they might be faced with having to fix the game twice, which could be kinda demoralizing for them. You can't hope to make a proper AI when the game rules are in flux.

Successfully updated karma reason!

On the plus side - a bunch of humans trying to exploit - er - I mean, gain competitive advantages over the system (and each other) can show a lot of data and areas that need to be balanced.

I think having MP enabled won't a bad thing and can even show more examples of the systems that need work and what's broken in them, especially if they stick to their goal of "nothing in SP will be sacrificed for the sake of MP" - even SP-only folks will benefit from balancing. The AI can also be taught better strategies closer to what human players do as well - another possible benefit for SP folks.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Some people are enjoying the game as it stands, let them enjoy it together.

Successfully updated karma reason!

You guys know the game was always planned to be multiplayer and the code is already there, right? Someone isn't slaving away building MP into the game tonight.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Tridus,

reply 8

You guys know the game was always planned to be multiplayer and the code is already there, right? Someone isn't slaving away building MP into the game tonight.

Actually that's not quite true.. originally it was developed as SP or at very least an SP focused game ... there are some threads on this as well as an audio interview some where.. Brad explained that the beta testers convinced them to do it.. however that was looong before I got in to beta 3 so.. and has been a promised part of game for a good long while now..

here is one of the threads.. I wish i could remember the audio interview but I am old sooo

Successfully updated karma reason!

Blaze of Glory

Join Date 04/2006

+27

Let us try this again. MP, usually you and a friend, can be fun. As long as that is balanced between map and starting positions.

If you want MP with other nations controlled by the ai, then you need a solid ai, especially in co-op mode.

So, IMHO, it would be good if the ai, whether single or multi player, was solid.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Twohawks,

reply 9

Actually that's not quite true.. originally it was developed as SP or at very least an SP focused game ... there are some threads on this as well as an audio interview some where.. Brad explained that the beta testers convinced them to do it.. however that was looong before I got in to beta 3 so.. and has been a promised part of game for a good long while now..

here is one of the threads.. I wish i could remember the audio interview but I am old sooo

I'll see you that, and raise you one. Here's the pre-beta 2 thread about multipayer, circa January. Beta 2 was actually a MP connectivity test.

While it's not a MP focused game, it WAS always intended to have MP support. The internal testers convinced him to do stuff like disable tactical combat and change how the quest system works in MP, and TBH I think that was a mistake.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Tridus,

reply 11

Quoting Twohawks, reply 9
Actually that's not quite true.. originally it was developed as SP or at very least an SP focused game ... there are some threads on this as well as an audio interview some where.. Brad explained that the beta testers convinced them to do it.. however that was looong before I got in to beta 3 so.. and has been a promised part of game for a good long while now..

here is one of the threads.. I wish i could remember the audio interview but I am old sooo

I'll see you that, and raise you one. Here's the pre-beta 2 thread about multipayer, circa January. Beta 2 was actually a MP connectivity test.

While it's not a MP focused game, it WAS always intended to have MP support. The internal testers convinced him to do stuff like disable tactical combat and change how the quest system works in MP, and TBH I think that was a mistake.

Damn beat out by an inside straight again! .. I wish i could find the audio interview.. I swear Brad said originally they had no plans for mp ... mostly because now its going to drive me crazy..

Successfully updated karma reason!

i say lets see what 1.08 brings to the table. i mean, they are going to implement it in 1.08 so it's gotta be pretty much done. no harm in getting it out.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'll quote someone from the other thread, whose comment I think makes sense:

Whether you are interested in MP or not, it is simply the best way to really analyze the game rules. Most games actually start with multiplayer before the AI is even considered. That way you can see if your rules are holding up and have the potential for competitive fun. I know alot of you don't appreciate being beta testors, but MP is the way to fix the single player game most quickly and thoroughly.

Having to deal with problems and trying to make them perfectly against the AI before each patch can be a problem, instead, if you implement things with multiplayer in mind, and see how they work there, you can focus on perfecting them first, and then making them work flawlessly with the AI.

Also, many of the current problems are only aggravated in multiplayer, like the horrendous turn system for tactical battles, or pretty much any other exploit in the game.

Besides, MP takes looooong to balance and fix in every game, so it's understandable that they want to start early.

Quoting UmbralAngel,

reply 4

I think multiplayer is to hold over people until the AI is finished : P

but yeah I would never play a TBS game multiplayer.

You're missing out, the Civilization games online with friends are amazing.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Most people would consider Multiplayer a major feature. If it's barely any work to finish implementing it, they might as well put it out before embarking on the giant task of rebalancing.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I don't agree with this sentiment. Adding multi player will do a lot for the balancing effort and perhaps outline problems that aren't currently known.

Successfully updated karma reason!

This aint WOW or counterstrike... MP can and should probably wait until the major memory leaks are resolved, some they got fixed up in 1.07 but not by any stretch did they nail them all. Additionally if the MP is just broke in teh REAL world environs this will just create a further reason for more bitchin and moanin... Not a good idea to start polishing one side then move on before its shiny...

One Example: In MP Tactical Combat, the use of Confusion spell by both sides could cause an infinite loop, ok maybe not infinite but very long and dumb... Bugs like that will be used to each player favor and it just will not work well. Not work well = no fun.

Then again maybe it's just that I do not see myself playing MP - Elemental at least for a year or two until my kids can more fully engage me in a complex TBS game like this. I normally would not see myself playing a game were people will drop when they think they can no longer win... (ie. random MP Elemental pick up games.)

SO I have time to wait for MP and for the GAME itself to be made whole...maybe others do not have that kind of time...

Successfully updated karma reason!

Play Civ 4 with friends without a stank look on your face and then come back and tell me you didn't think that was fun.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting solidsmooky,

reply 18

Play Civ 4 with friends without a stank look on your face and then come back and tell me you didn't think that was fun.

Heh, yeah. Especially if you get a good group and play on slow speeds. Games take DAYS, but they are awesome.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Speaking as someone who likes multiplayer:

Yes, re-balance the game first. It needs to be a good game first before people start thinking about multiplayer. Few would buy Elemental for multiplayer alone. Multiplayer fans are the ones most likely to know Elemental is focused on single player.

============

That said, you don't have to agonize over fixing minor things like unit/spell costs or stats. You can apply some broad fixes and improve the modding tools. If you focus on the fundamental balance problems, community can fix the rest.

Successfully updated karma reason!

MP was on the box. It should be on. Period. There is very little excuse about it, especially since it was supposed to be turned on at release.

They should not be doing actual implementation for it (really. they shouldn't) They may be recently tweaking values based on recent feedback, etc, which is fine. But they aren't writing the code. It's already written, and it supposedly works. See Beta 2.

The reason it is delayed is because the second MP goes on, the amount of support that it will require will pull on SP a bit (think of two teams).

But it was still on the box.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting ,

quoting post

The game is not ready for multiplayer, developers need to spend more time on magic, combat and technology before multiplayer should be even considered.

I agree 150% with this. Multiplayer should just be forgotten right now perhaps even a year before trying to implement that and have to deal with the screams of unbalanced unbalanced unbalanced of that part as well. They don't realize it will never be balanced and since the game is still so far out in left field now priority should be on the single player game, fixing what needs to be fixed and then coloring it up into a very polished game. Then consider MP.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting Gene1966,

reply 17

This aint WOW or counterstrike... MP can and should probably wait until the major memory leaks are resolved, some they got fixed up in 1.07 but not by any stretch did they nail them all. Additionally if the MP is just broke in teh REAL world environs this will just create a further reason for more bitchin and moanin... Not a good idea to start polishing one side then move on before its shiny...

As opposed to the bitchin and moanin about how Stardock published yet another game with non-functional MP at launch? They've been thrashed pretty hard around the net for that. Not to mention that it's listed on the box as a feature, to turn around now and say "sorry we're not doing that for six months" would start a whole other thing.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Only to the MP biatches. Not for the single players. I agree with work on the SP game first and forget MP for 6 months or a year. Let em biatch they've already been doin that anyway no use in throwing salt onto an OLD wound.

Best to keep one of their promises: " "nothing in SP will be sacrificed for the sake of MP"

Successfully updated karma reason!

Quoting ,

quoting post

The game is not ready for multiplayer, developers need to spend more time on magic, combat and technology before multiplayer should be even considered.

If multiplayer was not an advertised feature of the game but an additional feature that was thrown in but not guaranteed to purchasers you would certainly have a point.

But it is, so you don't.

Successfully updated karma reason!