A plea for Hotseat multiplayer » Forum Post by magnuskn

I'd say hotseat is quite essential for me as well. I'm going to be playing the game alot over the 'net and by myself, but if hotseat was added, I would be able to play with my GF. We currently play hotseat Medieval 2: Total War, and its great fun as well as a good way to get my non-game girlfriend interested in playing games with me. If we have to play the game from two different computers, it loses some of its social aspect, even if we are in the same room. That, and I doubt I can get her to shell out the money for a copy of the game.

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Agreed, as I've posted before, I'll be extremely disappointed if hotseat is excluded, especially when multiplayer in other forms is included. There aren't a ton of options out there as far as current hotseat titles and my friends and I were hoping elemental would be our next addiction for hotseat play. Unfortunately these posts never get any attention from Stardock and historical posting suggests hotseat is definitely not going to be a feature at release, and only a slight possibility for later.

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Not for release. After release? Frogboy may need some convincing.

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Can anybody tell me what his arguments against it are?

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He has never said that he is against it (as far as I know). But surely isn't a priority.

https://forums.elementalgame.com/381530/page/2/#2611045

And maybe he said something more in the thread I made about Hotseat long time ago but too lazy to search it.

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<sigh> Why do I get the feeling Frogboy is prejudiced against Hotseat? It's not as if the mode would be too hard to implement, if there is a functioning multiplayer infrastructure, right?

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Quoting magnuskn,

reply 6

<sigh> Why do I get the feeling Frogboy is prejudiced against Hotseat? It's not as if the mode would be too hard to implement, if there is a functioning multiplayer infrastructure, right?

I'm not a developer and it sounds simple enough to throw in if you've already got the MP infrastructure going. With the change to the turned based tactical battles hotseat makes even more sense imo.

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Quoting Slainangel52,

reply 7

Quoting magnuskn, reply 6<sigh> Why do I get the feeling Frogboy is prejudiced against Hotseat? It's not as if the mode would be too hard to implement, if there is a functioning multiplayer infrastructure, right?
I'm not a developer and it sounds simple enough to throw in if you've already got the MP infrastructure going. With the change to the turned based tactical battles hotseat makes even more sense imo.

Quite my point. Look, I'll in all likelyhood buy the game, because I like Stardocks games... but the lack of hotseat will probably prevent most of my friends from buying it.

I suppose Frogboy has some internal numbers that show him hotseat is not as wanted as it seems to us, but at least from my anecdotal viewpoint, for every guy who buys the game, another one to three will pass because it lacks the features they want. And at least in my circle of friends, there's a high demand of games with a.) turn-based strategy b.) tactical combat and c.) hotseat multiplayer.

Not that playing over an internet connection wouldn't be possible, but it's not the same as sitting with your friends before your PC and chatting about the game and other stuff.

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Quoting magnuskn,

reply 8

Quoting Slainangel52, reply 7
Quoting magnuskn, reply 6<sigh> Why do I get the feeling Frogboy is prejudiced against Hotseat? It's not as if the mode would be too hard to implement, if there is a functioning multiplayer infrastructure, right?
I'm not a developer and it sounds simple enough to throw in if you've already got the MP infrastructure going. With the change to the turned based tactical battles hotseat makes even more sense imo.
Quite my point. Look, I'll in all likelyhood buy the game, because I like Stardocks games... but the lack of hotseat will probably prevent most of my friends from buying it.

I suppose Frogboy has some internal numbers that show him hotseat is not as wanted as it seems to us, but at least from my anecdotal viewpoint, for every guy who buys the game, another one to three will pass because it lacks the features they want. And at least in my circle of friends, there's a high demand of games with a.) turn-based strategy b.) tactical combat and c.) hotseat multiplayer.

Not that playing over an internet connection wouldn't be possible, but it's not the same as sitting with your friends before your PC and chatting about the game and other stuff.

Exactly, it provides the atmosphere you'd get with a console but on a PC, it isn't the same playing it over the net or whatever when you could be chilling with your friends drinking some beers and bullshitting between turns. I've scoured the internet trying to find new strategy games with hotseat mode because we've pretty much exhausted the more well known games. I've already pre-ordered so I've got the game either way, hotseat would go a long way in making it something my group of friends buys/plays for a long time to come.

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Quoting Slainangel52,

reply 9

Exactly, it provides the atmosphere you'd get with a console but on a PC, it isn't the same playing it over the net or whatever when you could be chilling with your friends drinking some beers and bullshitting between turns. I've scoured the internet trying to find new strategy games with hotseat mode because we've pretty much exhausted the more well known games. I've already pre-ordered so I've got the game either way, hotseat would go a long way in making it something my group of friends buys/plays for a long time to come.

That mirrors my sentiments exactly. Oh, well, let's hope Frogboy or Draginol or someone else takes notice. <crosses fingers>

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Hot seat is a must. I still have hours of fun with Friends playing Hot seat Age of Wonders Shadow magic and Civ. And we just turn away from the screen when someone has to do some diplomancy. Usally we send threats to each other and just have a blast. So Yes please have hotseat in this game I mean after all it is a Turn-based game why wouldn't you have it?

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I agree used to play hotseat with my dad when i was young *heroes of might and magic anyone?*

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Quoting Sethfc,

reply 12

I agree used to play hotseat with my dad when i was young *heroes of might and magic anyone?*

Yeah, playing HoMM2, Master of Orion II, Disciples II and Age of Wonders on hotseat was always one of the best parts of the turn-based strategy games. I think GalCiv2 would have had a much longer shelf-life for me if it had included hotseat multiplayer, now I can't bring myself to start a new game, since games on big maps last for days and the AI is not good enough to be a real challenge after a good number of playthroughs.

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Quoting Atalvyr,

reply 1

I'd say hotseat is quite essential for me as well. I'm going to be playing the game alot over the 'net and by myself, but if hotseat was added, I would be able to play with my GF. We currently play hotseat Medieval 2: Total War, and its great fun as well as a good way to get my non-game girlfriend interested in playing games with me. If we have to play the game from two different computers, it loses some of its social aspect, even if we are in the same room. That, and I doubt I can get her to shell out the money for a copy of the game.

With previous Stardock games (ie: Sins), installing a second copy in your home for things like playing with the GF on the LAN was explicitly allowed. I wouldn't be surprised if such a thing was true of Elemental as well, in which case you will be able to play her without shelling out for a second copy.

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Quoting magnuskn,

reply 6

<sigh> Why do I get the feeling Frogboy is prejudiced against Hotseat? It's not as if the mode would be too hard to implement, if there is a functioning multiplayer infrastructure, right?

Months ago, this came up as well. IIRC it went like this for multiplayer options:

Internet: Definitely

LAN: "Almost certainly"

Hotseat: "Probably"

PBEM: "Not sure"

I have a hard time imagining Frogboy sitting in his office cackling madly and twirling his moustache while he tries to find new ways to keep hotseat out of the game. It's just a matter of priorites, and things like magic, war, and a working AI are higher on the list then hotseat.

I'd expect it to be added after release, Stardock has always been good about supporting games after release and it is something that some people want. That said, I do think it's been pushed back because it's just not as in demand as Online and LAN play.

(As to the idea that it's easy to implment because MP is in place... you need the UI to deal with hotseat differently then online play, especially if the online modes are synchronous turns. Hotseat by definition doesn't work with synchronous turns.)

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Hotseat actually requires as much or more work than standard multiplayer, as you've got to account for differences in diplomacy, combat resolution, switching which faction the player is controlling on the fly, etc. And there are fewer people who would use it compared to standard multiplayer (even more so since as others have said, we typically allow multiple installations in the buyer's home).

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Quoting Tridus,

reply 15

Months ago, this came up as well. IIRC it went like this for multiplayer options:

Internet: Definitely

LAN: "Almost certainly"

Hotseat: "Probably"

PBEM: "Not sure"

Well, the latest news was the one Wintersong posted above, and that was "PBEM hopefully in the release, hotseat maybe... but not so likely.

Quoting Tridus,

reply 15

I have a hard time imagining Frogboy sitting in his office cackling madly and twirling his moustache while he tries to find new ways to keep hotseat out of the game.

Well, you never know.

Quoting Tridus,

reply 15

It's just a matter of priorites, and things like magic, war, and a working AI are higher on the list then hotseat.

I'd expect it to be added after release, Stardock has always been good about supporting games after release and it is something that some people want. That said, I do think it's been pushed back because it's just not as in demand as Online and LAN play.

(As to the idea that it's easy to implment because MP is in place... you need the UI to deal with hotseat differently then online play, especially if the online modes are synchronous turns. Hotseat by definition doesn't work with synchronous turns.)

Well, knowing Frogboys general dislike of MP, I remain warily sceptical of much support of any MP features after launch besides the ones already in the game.

And as I said, the latest I read ( as posted by Wintersong above ) was that PBEM is in the list they'd like to have ready for release of the game, and that is basically hotseat over email.

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Quoting kryo,

reply 16

Hotseat actually requires as much or more work than standard multiplayer, as you've got to account for differences in diplomacy, combat resolution, switching which faction the player is controlling on the fly, etc. And there are fewer people who would use it compared to standard multiplayer (even more so since as others have said, we typically allow multiple installations in the buyer's home).

Count me as a bit confused what the differences in combat resolution would be... I understand that diplomacy is of course a bit different ( but not a big problem as I see it per se... people generally accept that they know what the other guy beside them is doing or shortly leave the room if necessary ) and that switching the faction per turn may allocate some other resources than simultaneous turns. But would the latter not also hold true for PBEM?

Ultimately I see adding hotseat as added PR for the game... there is a segment of players who won't buy the game if it lacks hotseat and a good number of them will see the game at the home of a friend, while using that feature. Telling someone that a game is good is never as effective as that other person playing the game.

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Ultimately I see adding hotseat as added PR for the game... there is a segment of players who won't buy the game if it lacks hotseat and a good number of them will see the game at the home of a friend, while using that feature. Telling someone that a game is good is never as effective as that other person playing the game.

But this assumes spending development time for hotseat is not an opportunity cost. If they put people on making hotseat, those people won't be doing anything else. To rephrase your final point, telling someone that a game is good is never as effective as the game actually being good. There is a huge list of cool features that sadly probably won't make it into the core gameplay anytime soon, and hotseat is certainly not a core feature for a singleplayer-focused game as Frogboy said from the start it would be.

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Quoting Annatar11,

reply 19

But this assumes spending development time for hotseat is not an opportunity cost. If they put people on making hotseat, those people won't be doing anything else. To rephrase your final point, telling someone that a game is good is never as effective as the game actually being good. There is a huge list of cool features that sadly probably won't make it into the core gameplay anytime soon, and hotseat is certainly not a core feature for a singleplayer-focused game as Frogboy said from the start it would be.

I see the point there, but with this philosophy, we'll never get hotseat, since there'll always be something more important. For that matter, following this line of thought, all the other MP could also be abolished, since Frogboy likes single player more.

I understand that online play and LAN is more important, but hotseat has its adherents, too.

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Quoting magnuskn,

reply 20

I see the point there, but with this philosophy, we'll never get hotseat, since there'll always be something more important. For that matter, following this line of thought, all the other MP could also be abolished, since Frogboy likes single player more.

I understand that online play and LAN is more important, but hotseat has its adherents, too.

Over time, opportunity cost goes down. Right now that someone implementing hotseat could be implementing improvements to the Empire tree, or intelligent AI, or flashy spells, etc. In 6 months, what they'll have left to add won't be as major, at which point hotseat would be higher on the list.

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Well, I was only lurking here so far, but decided to join in for this thread.

I too would like to see a Hotseat option.

It's quite a fun option, especially since it allows you to play against yourself.

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Can't friends just bring their notebooks and play a LAN game?

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Can't friends just bring their notebooks and play a LAN game?

you seen the cloth map?! it makes my eyes bleed.

hot seat would be nice feature to have if you have only one computer and want to play with a friend on that computer, it would require some work behind it and it would have to be almost lagless in switching over to the other player so you are able to keep going, but it might be also worth developing it further for people with duel monitors, then it would be almost no need to call the feature hot seat you would need to set it up so the game can use two different mouses maybe even keyboards, maybe even use two different key boards and mouses on the one sreen removes to need to swap make sure it knows whos keyboard is the right person.

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I wasn't going to respond, as this option would of 0% impact on me and my enjoyment of this game.

But I think what Kryo is trying to point out. This would require significant time to properly develop and implement. As much as Multiplayer. I believe he said.

So, just take that into account, when talking about it and don't really expect it to show up, until sometime down the road after release, when their development window is open again.

To clarify I'm not saying I'm not for this option. I just haven't used this style of play since 1988 or so with a friend, when we took turns, literally taking turns controlling whatever guy we were playing, in between turns. Back before .. you know actual multiplayer even existed, in any meaningful way.

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