I do sympathize.  I hate scout rushing crap.  We shall see how things turn out.  Best of luck.

[_]-Greyfox

After 2 years almost of the Advent being OP. You would think after all the bitching, all the legitamate bitching. That some balance changes would have been made. That actually nerfed the advent. lol Now diplomacy is coming and game is still kinda broken.

The mod you want is 'normal start'.  It 'adds to the length' of games.  Ignore Advent smurfs who whine about it, if they were new they wouldn't appreciate the difference.  Have them thrown out of your games.  Play appropriate maps for Vasari, not one of the dismal stream of 5v5 single maps- why always single?  The PUGs are terrible, and no place to begin to learn to play online.

However, I wonder whether the developers have any concern remaining for the game.  We've waited for two expansion betas- and one hotfix- for a simple hotfix that would rid us of the Illuminator bug.  There has been no communication about the bug from them in that time.  The v1.18 'balance' patch was supposed to stop Illuminator spamming, though without nerfing Illuminators themselves, worrying enough.  To have Illuminator spam heavily enhanced, plus the appearance of Disciple spam as as soon as LF had any value at all, because Disciples were also too strong, isn't balance at all.

The current online game is extremely poor and making it faster won't get us to the 'dire' numbers of 'only' 1000 players that usually 'announces the death' of any other RTS.  I loathe the concepts of more AI cheating and fastest speeds that the expansion is including- and I'm among those wishing for a new combat ship, especially as it seems that the fourth race won't emerge.  However, what makes a good RTS is balance, and the last patch attempt just made the balance much worse.  And I sympathise with the mood to quit, because I'm not getting the impression that anyone is listening.

Please hotfix the Illuminators, it's been two months. 

two or three DS caps would smash most spams into the ground and come out looking good

The spam alone is bad enough to deal with.  But have you been hit with the spam backed by 2 halcyons loaded with bombers, in a rush?  Because then the only "counters" you are left with don't work!  Starbase?  It goes down in seconds to the bombers.  Capships?  They die in seconds to the bombers.  Get out a few carriers with fighters to deal with the bombers?  Bitchslap.

Anyway, I agree that 5v5 pugs, quickstart, and fast speed settings are a lot of the problem.  And I don't think the entire game should cater to and be balanced around 50 people who play 5v5 pugs on crowded rush maps.  People who care about balance should play the game on normal speed settings and normal start.  If the Advent dominance is still there, THEN we can ask for balance changes, and THEN the ritalin junkies who like maxed out speeds, quickstart, etc. can go back to their favorite settings.

You've missed a VERY key point about no quick start. The vasari get a big advantage if you turn quick start off. That advantage is that they can find neutrals WAAAAY before the other races can, meaning they get economic stimulus very early. This is how Vasari USED to be successful. They would find about 3-4 neutrals in the first 10 minutes and lean on having a better resource eco than everyone else to be successful. Sure, the units were a little bit weaker, but this was ok considering you could make up for it with a good early game eco from neutrals and by having MORE than your opponent QUICKER.

Quickstart completely negates that, and shows that Vasari light frigs are pathetic, their scouts are weak, and that their flak are horrible compared to TEC and Advent. I hope some fixing is coming for Vasari in the next patch.

its funny when i read this it feel like reading an actual battle report:

New Advent Strategy: they are rushing us with scouts and both the Valiant TEC and Mighty Vasari are havign a hard time beating back this new Advent assault =P

Next, they'll buff TEC or Vasari way too much and then the other two races will be hard pressed to survive... funny how it ebbs and flows..

No I didn't.  You're assuming every game will yield neutrals somewhere near your vasari starting position which is not always the case.  Some games, heck, by the time you locate any neutrals your seeker spam opponent may already be sitting on it.

In addition, why is regular start somehow a counter to seeker spam?  It isn't.  In fact, playing as advent the first 10-15 minutes on normal start I have no problem building a frigate factory and cranking out the seekers.  This is NOT a solution to the spam problem.

IMO that would just encourage things.  They would be getting a win from it after all.  Plus if it was a team game you would be screwing your team and no one would want to play with you anymore.

[_]-Greyfox

I don't see anything wrong with hosting games titled "No Advent" or "TEC only" or "Vasari only" or even "Advent only".  Just do that.

you either weren't around for the no-quickstart days or have forgotten them. With Vasari, these advantages become clear with no quick start:

Much quicker and easier access to neutrals (jump on econ), but you're right, neutrals aren't always there, but it's rare for a map to not yield at least 1 within 3jumps of the homeworld, and that's all it takes.

1 Lab for Long Range Frigates<--big advantage for getting numbers early. Nanite bomb + assialants means dead enemy cap.

I'm not saying no quick start fixes all of the woes, but it definitely gives Vasari a better shot. They get access to lrf's with ease and get a jump on neutrals that the other races don't. The seeker spam is no longer a huge pain in the neck, because skirmishers....while pathetic, will beat pure seekers. I'm sorry, but I've never had trouble with fighting seekers. Just don't build a target with light armor, and you'll pwn.

You say the Advent player can spam seekers from the beginning. Believe it or not, navigators DO win in seekers vs. navigator.

Aaaaaah, TYPO, navigators blow

Personally, when I play as Vasari, my answer lately has been get the Egg early. If you see the opponent bringing seekers/disciples, get a devastator if he has a mothership, a carrier cap IF you see a halcyon ( you need something for the bombers/fighter).

That works, but it lends itself to heavily defensive play. The hits your eco takes by getting caps when you really can't afford them is too much, and you will probably be pushed back a bit before you can hope to make your own push.