I certainly agree that 'tools' that can fit into gameplay give the most bang for the buck. In GC2, the ship editor was ENTIRELY in-game, and became a notable in most reviews. If it was purely a 'mod tool', those reviews probably would mentoned it as a side-though...if mentoned at all.

That said, we're having a much harder time finding clever ways to include the editors as game-features this time around. A 'spell editor' is great, but if it's an actual 'game feature', there need to be balance and limitation to prevent exploitation. For example, perhaps there is actual loot that has to be 'used' to influence the effect of the spell ('Heart of Ice Wolf' = +10 Ice Attack DMG). As of now, the editors are completely open to ANY values and combinations, which would have to be streamlined to make sense  (and, again, not exploitable) in-game.

Anyways, it's something were definatly thinking about.  I'll keep ya posted!

edit: I may have read too much into this post. Yes, we're going to jam as many editors as we can into the game itself (opposed to external EXE's).

Awesome!

And ofcourse the strength of spells like fireball could be increased by using even more karma.

That's what i was thinking...a similar approach to the spell-creation system in Oblivion

Mike

Just as long as the in-gaming doesn't restrict the values for out-of-game modding...... one of my big headaches in GC2 was that you had to go and tinker with unrealistically powerful ships in the XML becuase the ship editor was completely reality-based.

In my post Populous in EWOM, how exactly do you want it? , I've suggested that "Map builder UI shows up allow gamer create/destroy map terrain tile & tile.   Cost is paid by essence." 

There should be pre-game option to enable/disable the Map builder or other editor.   Essence should represent the cost to alter reality.   The more you pay, the more powerful your Populous-like power.  

(A even crazier suggestion, make these editor(s) individually avaliable when gamer customize their race, before the game start.  For example, if a gamer want access to the Mapbuilder in game, he cannot research as many spells as other palerys.   EWOM should have more variety than just choosing faction, #of opponent and 4 victory conditions)

Effort should be spent on the main gameplay, the balance of these reality-alternating editor should not be too important.   Assign an essence cost, then the gamers can suggest appropriate cost balances.  A later patch can then be added to make those god-like power more balanced.  Just a suggestion

I don't think he means by that much of an extreme as in Oblivion. More like balancing costs. Say you pump up the damage of your Fire spell by 5 points. That will cost you 5 Essence. (or whatever number they decide) It's purely a mechanic.

I would also like to habe the ability to use these editors to enhance my opponets or create new opponets while the game is going on.  For example if I'm winning I would like to go to the editor and add some bad guy units that invade (either through a portal or some other way) my lands that I would have to over come.

Me to....me too. Troop editor and Spell Editor will be used the most by me unless the editors are just too much of a pain to use (which I hope not.) I'm no programer so I hope I would have to learn a programming language just to use the editors.