Or from any civilized society anywhere, for that matter.

Support for Israel from Christian southern Sudan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYv7ARsODIk

Christians (and animinists) in southern Sudan had been the target of an Arab genocide for a decade in a war that raised no concern whatsoever. no media interest in the "victims", and caused no protests all over the world.

You certainly don't find liberals posting about it on JU.

The man in the video used to be a slave. He escaped and is now a resident of Israel. Slavery is not something liberals worry about much.

Here's what I have seen liberals do regarding slavery in the US:

1. The Democratic governeur of Virginia, from a state and a party that supported slavery in the 1860s, demanded from Queen Elizabeth, head of state of a country that fought wars to abolish slavery long before the 1860s, an apology for slavery.

2. Liberals elected a Ku-Klux-Klan member into the Senate.

Not a totally impressive anti-slavery record.

Fantastic.

Our liberal military experts explained to us that military victories achieve nothing.

Nevertheless Hizbullah and the Lebanese government say they don't want to risk another war with Israel and yet didn't fire rockets into Israel. They did fire rockets into Israel for six years before the miliotary victory that achieved nothing and haven't done so since then.

A few rockets were fired from the north, by "Palestinian" groups, but both Hizbullah and the Lebanese government are working to track these groups down and stop the firing.

It's inconceivable, but our liberal military experts seem to have been wrong yet again. How is that possible?

Another interesting point:

The media have shown every picture coming out of Gaza: Especially wounded women and children, but none of the wounded/dead Hamas "Fighters". What incredible marksmen the Israelis are! They can hit only women and children. Amazing! How did they win all those wars? Hmmmm....could the media be biased? Naaaah.

Also, how is it we never get the dead Iraqui civilian count, pictures of their dead/maimed? Why don't we see the coffins coming back to America? Can the media be that ruled/"owned" by the Whitehouse? Naaaaah.

Get used to the idea: You are fed exactly what profits them (media moguls/politicians/military-industrial complex/"Intelligence" community) and which diverts you from knowing the truth.

Artysim, I understand your position on saying that two wrongs don't make a right, but I think in this case you are wrong.

The reason every nation has a military is to protect itself from attacks, and to respond appropriately to them.  If Israel was willing to merely sit down and take the attacks from Hamas without a problem, what incentive do they have to stop attacking?  What would other anti-semites in the region begin to think upon seeing that such a blatant attack could go unchallenged?

In the case of war, two wrongs do make a right.  The whole point of a war is to eventually establish peace.  If we were able to merely negotiate away our differences, do you think we would bother to have a military at all?  Sometimes the only way to correct a problem is to destroy it, and the Hamas have proven beyond question that they cannot be reasoned with.

Unfortunately war will be of limited value in this case because hatred does not listen to reason, but Israel has to do what it must.

However, I do believe that one day someone will end the violence in the Middle East, and when he does, the world will soon be just a stone's throw away from hell.

Historically (in the 20th century) the Democrats were more supportive of immigrants and minorities in the north. That was part of the plan to re-establish itself after losing the Civil War.

The Democrats also didn't identify with the "new left" of today. Traditional left-wingers supported and support Israel (while right-wingers didn't care either way).

A _real_ old-style socialist or communist would be more likely to support minority-run kibbuzim (socialist farms) than imperialist Arab land lords. And that's exactly what had happened in the past.

In Europe you can still find many old-style socialists who very vocally support Israel. But they are outnumbered by the new fascist left.

The protests (anti-Israeli) get louder. Is anyone else concerned by the Hamas headgear (masks) being worn here in the states at some of these rallies? It's starting to look like Gaza here. I don't know about you all but I hope some phones are being tapped tonight.

Hhhhmmmm.... well, let me connect two dots for you. A little while ago I put forth the position that the massively disproportionate military campaign being conducted by Israel in Gaza would strengthen Hamas far more than it will hurt them. The response was "LOL!, that's ridiculous, look Hamas members are all getting wiped out you dumb liberal anti-semite!!!!" (I threw in the anti-semite part because apparently any objection to the practices and tactics used by the IDF and it's political masters automatically equates into anti-semitism. Nevermind that much of the criticism comes from Jews and Israeli citizens as well, as I will post a link to at the end)

And yes, many Hamas are indeed being killed. But this campaign and the fact that half of those killed and wounded are non-combatant civillians, has pretty much provided Hamas with the biggest recruiting drive they've seen in years. Just about every single Hamas fighter in the Gaza strip can get killed today and yet tomorrow there will still be folks with green bandanas shooting their bottle rockets off across the border.

This goes back to the earlier point I was trying to express- Israel has the right to exist and defend herself, yes, absolutely. But a massive military strike, like the one they are conducting now is ultimately going to hurt them far more than help them.

In spain, yesterday 100,000 people marched against the Israeli military campaign-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28606146/

and in Pakistan, which we all know to be a very stable country NOT in any danger whatsoever of falling under the control of radical elements, the U.S consulate had to be shut down yesterday because of large protests-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28593438/

Earlier I stated that there is much criticism coming from Jews and Israeli citizens against this military action, and so I will post it here. The following is written by Avi Shlaim, a fellow who has served with the IDF in the past (as all able bodied Israeli's must in their younger years)

Entire article here-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine?1

and I quote-

"I write as someone who served loyally in the Israeli army in the mid-1960s and who has never questioned the legitimacy of the state of Israel within its pre-1967 borders. What I utterly reject is the Zionist colonial project beyond the Green Line. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in the aftermath of the June 1967 war had very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism. The aim was to establish Greater Israel through permanent political, economic and military control over the Palestinian territories. And the result has been one of the most prolonged and brutal military occupations of modern times.

Four decades of Israeli control did incalculable damage to the economy of the Gaza Strip. With a large population of 1948 refugees crammed into a tiny strip of land, with no infrastructure or natural resources, Gaza's prospects were never bright. Gaza, however, is not simply a case of economic under-development but a uniquely cruel case of deliberate de-development. To use the Biblical phrase, Israel turned the people of Gaza into the hewers of wood and the drawers of water, into a source of cheap labour and a captive market for Israeli goods. The development of local industry was actively impeded so as to make it impossible for the Palestinians to end their subordination to Israel and to establish the economic underpinnings essential for real political independence.

Gaza is a classic case of colonial exploitation in the post-colonial era. Jewish settlements in occupied territories are immoral, illegal and an insurmountable obstacle to peace. They are at once the instrument of exploitation and the symbol of the hated occupation. In Gaza, the Jewish settlers numbered only 8,000 in 2005 compared with 1.4 million local residents. Yet the settlers controlled 25% of the territory, 40% of the arable land and the lion's share of the scarce water resources. Cheek by jowl with these foreign intruders, the majority of the local population lived in abject poverty and unimaginable misery. Eighty per cent of them still subsist on less than $2 a day. The living conditions in the strip remain an affront to civilised values, a powerful precipitant to resistance and a fertile breeding ground for political extremism." 

I would agree, if I were convinced that Jew-free zones are necessary. But I don't want to live in a world where Jews are not allowed to live in X and Arabs are not allowed to live in Y.

This is what happens when fighters hide among civilians, and those civilians are either actively aiding Hamas, enjoy standing  next to them, or are just plain stupid to separate themselves from them. The only thing I'd have done different from the Israeli side is process civilians (check them for weapons) and put them in a safe area. Then shoot anything else that moved in Gaza. Gaza needs an enema anyway.

I realize the left wants a military (in both the US and Israel) that fights on the enemies level (Perhaps the Israel army should have sent boy into gaza to blow themselves up. An insect will keep biting you until you kill it.

"Bottle Rockets" funny how liberals always want to make the enemy seem harmless. How comfortable would you be to call it that to the face of one of the victims of a "bottle rocket" family members? Maybe any perceived gun problems by the left in the US can be refereed to as a "pop gun" problem. Of course that wouldn't satisfy your agenda would it?

The biggest mistake liberals make however is the thought that the support they give Hamas will be returned in kind. Well here's a news flash for you, they hate you and your way of life just a little less than the Jews. Once they are out of the way, your next on the to do list.

I currently play DnD with two of them (and not one of those people who got assimilated in your culture. I live with the pure pedigree), and their reaction to the same question was: "Well, It's a fucking game.". Which is more enlightened than some christians in the USA, I'd have to say.

And I haven't had any problem with my religion, even if it not even of the Abrahamic faith.

I live in a muslim country. I think I could qualify you as an "armchair sociologue". You don't know anything about living in their countries, or how they really treat peoples. You merely think you know them because you opened a book and read the most extremist exemples of their society. It's like thinking all Germans are like Hitler.