According to their THQ publisher, that is why IronLore recently closed their doors.

Too bad, the Titan Quest games were OK.

WWW Link

~ Wyndstar

Personally I find piracy far less acceptable for games then for say...songs or TV shows. I still have yet to pirate any software other then earlier versions of photoshop (what 15 year old high school student is going to have 600 dollars to pony up for version 6?), it just makes a lot less sense then buying the game especially after direct2drive and stardocks impulse make it way easier to install and play normally. The bane of my PC playing existence is losing CDs and needing them in the drive to play. There is nothing that annoys me more then being punished for the sins of hackers.

As far as buying games goes I see no valid argument for complete piracy. In the case of a song the argument can be made that nothing is REALLY being stolen, I mean what, 4 guys singing and playing instruments for a few hours in a studios is worth 15 dollars? Please. I still usually pay for music (especially with small bands) but the argument against piracy is not particularly strong since the product is so cheap to produce. To anyone who won't make music unless they're paid millions good riddance.

Alternately even a small game developer (perhaps especially a small game developer) spends millions on any decent game. Even galactic civ 2 which didn't spend tens of millions of dollars on render farms and high end textures still cost a good deal of money and time from dozens of workers. Even small company indy games cost millions to make, gone are the days of AOL shareware where two guys could make a functional current game for a few hundred bucks in their spare time. While I can say Metalica is silly for suing its fans over not paying 15 bucks for a few hours of their time I strongly believe it is completely correct for software providers to be angered about piracy especially if they are charging a fair price for their product. There is a much higher connection with quality out and money in with games, music can be made on the cheap in a garage, decent to good games can't anymore.

I do think the cure is worse then the disease however, I absolutely hate DRM in all its forms, especially CD checks and regularly have to crack my own purchased software because using it the "correct" way is so much of a chore. I hope that the future is more like Impulse where you can download, and more importantly redownload, games as often as you want and on as many computers as you want (which is important considering I have 3 I use regularly, all of which can run Gal Civ 2). My only worry is that eventually the service folds and I'm left with the rights to a lot of games I can no longer download.

Of course the easiest DRM of all comes from creating a compelling online experience that is unplayable without a unique purchased CD key. Perhaps there are ways around it where people can play something like Diablo 2 or whatever online without a unique copy, but in theory that's the best future for non DL service DRM. Whatever is done the most important aspect is not making it harder for the honest consumers to use what they paid for; to be honest the pirates will get their stuff for free no matter what, its infinitely easier to crack a lock then design one and every penny spent on clever DRM to be hacked within a week could be spent better tweaking AI or updating textures. I love stardocks approach with Gal Civ 2, Political Machine and Sins of a Solar Empire, I've installed all of them on multiple machines in minutes and they all run flawlessly, if only more companies wrote off the pirates as non sales and just made games easy to install and use like Stardock.


One thing I forgot to add is a semi valid reason for piracy. Buying a game is a BIG investment even for most semi well off 50-80k making families. Even if you make that much with taxes, mortgage payments, car payments, gas, food ect ect ect truly disposable income is seldom above a few hundred dollars a month for most in the gaming demographic (18-mid 30s). That means that there are really only 10-20 games which anyone can purchase in a given year for full price. That is where rentals come in (and no demos are not the same). For games I know will be good I just take the plunge and buy it sight unseen (Metal Gear Solid 4 for instance) but for others I'm not sure about, say Persona 3 for the PS2, I will rent and then decide. Often that works very well since some games like, for example, Ninja Gaiden 2 are not even in the same league with expectations so by renting it for 7 dollars I saved 50 in not buying it's horribleness. With PC games there is really no such option. I bought Gal Civ 2 solely on positive word of mouth (and from playing political machine, which was great) but I would have bought way sooner if I could have played it for real a few years ago. I don't see why there isn't an option for PC game rentals where one pays say 10 dollars which can be applied to the cost of the full game and gets either a set number of full games or a set number of days to try not a small limited demo, but the full game rental style. Like the guy above said to many piracy ends up being the rental market for games, it would seem prudent to have a more legitimate rental model as it would encourage testing of non hyped games at a much greater rate. I know I would have bought Gal Civ years ago if I had known how great it was in 2006 form a real rental demo.

I see. You stole your way to success. And you've admitted you're a pirate. I'd like to see something you've done. Why not take this opportunity to advertise? Although, I'm pretty sure I liked what you wrote better when George Lucas wrote it and it was called Star Wars.

Interestingly, he meant to say "stop shooting yourself in the foot" or perhaps "put a foot in your mouth". If I already had one there, I wouldn't be talking. See, that's what happens when you try to take too much from other people at one time. I am curious about him though. He spends time making something and doesn't care about taking the work of others. Maybe it's really because he's never actually created a thing in his life.

Is this the average American mind? Are we really that stupid as a whole?

You are just afraid to show me your precious work because you know I'd pirate it. Ideas are only free when they're not yours, right?

Tell me. Why don't you make a charitable donation to piracy by giving me everything you've ever written? You suck anyway, and I wouldn't buy it.

A man of no conviction. Who is a pirate I can respect?

what a discussion.......

i'd say Amen to the guys who thought it through (pirates r not the problem. it's the current solution vs pirates)


Alot of people pirate, and i've had more then enough games whre the developers let me hanging, telling me i should buy a 350$ upgrade for my system or do not reply to any future mails if the problem cant be solved, at those times i give the company a good mail.

"hello, you wil never see me or even worse, my money again, at the moment i am downloading a fix obtained from pirates, wich cost me a staggering 0$ and i will continue to do so for any new software released by your company, think again before dropping a good customer"

i know not all of the companies do it intentionally, but please people THINK, u dont have to be a rocket-scientist to see that the current ways DO NOT WORK....
you keep throwing rocks to try and kil air, plz pay some attention about what's below

commie

TO ANY MODERATOR READING THIS TOPIC:

I feel highly insulted by the user named "SlyDrivel" constant name-calling and insulting of other people. At the very least his latest posts have been pure trolling attempts, at the worst purely insulting.

I ask that this topic be locked before it becomes a total flame thread and also ask that the moderators take some kind of action with the user "SlyDrivel" to ensure that him/her can no longer troll these forums.

No, no, no, you are mixing up two very different positions. Most of the people in this thread aren't defending the pirates, we are criticising the counter-productive methods that some companies use to combat them. I don't pirate games and movies. I am very, very skilled at getting hold of legitimate copies of older games at a good price. I already own more games than I currently play at low prices. I also want those who make said game to be properly paid for them. If I can't afford a game, I just don't buy it.

On the other hand, game companies hurt their own sales and themselves are promoting piracy by using DRM that makes games difficult to play. Plus piracy is not costing them as much money as they think it does for the reasons I briefly outlined above.

No, he wants the thread locked because you're a TROLL.

I mean, come on... you even changed your name just for this one post. This is a hilarious joke hardy har har you makes teh lolz gud.

Now shut up and someone lock this.

I bought Mass Effect, and even though I was lucky enough to not have it cause issues over activation, I intend to peruse the net these days for a crack.
Why?
Because I bought a digital download version, have the installation files manually packed for storage on a DVD and it *still* is hogging 10GB of hard drive space because - I dare not uninstall it. Its a great game, like most which came from Bioware, and I would like to play it again one day, but I really don't want to waste time on a capricious DRM. Ever. I don't even want to hop on to the net even though I have flat-rate broadband, simply out of principle.

I bought the product, and I should not be dictated the terms of PERSONAL usage as long as that usage does not infringe on the rights and freedoms of other private individuals, EULA be damned.

So in this case I am forced to go to the pirates just to improve the quality of a product and/or service I paid for.

And that's why the gaming industry is suffering. When pirates act as a "supplementary" customer support, when you have to go to them to ensure your rights as a paying consumer are fulfilled in a fair manner, then one has to pause for a moment and reconsider the state of commercial publishing standards and overall quality of service deemed acceptable by the development companies.

See, I have trouble believing this. I have experienced DRM, and it's not a big impediment. Even the 10 day recurring internet check wouldn't be that bad. I don't see what the big deal is if you are not a pirate, and I don't think there is one.



You can only buy the rights to a product that are for sale. Your "natural" gaming rights include not being able to play the game and reading a book instead.

I have the sims 2, and I have to put the CD in my drive everytime I want to play. I guess that's annoying, but it's not that bad. It's certainly not as bad a deal as pirates want it to be.