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Join Date 04/2008
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A possible balance solution to the LRFs

LRFs being the chief winner decider must stop.

May 24, 2008 10:57:09 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think the LRFs should have a minimum range along with its maximum range. This will allow other ships to close in on them and pummel them while the LRFs are helpless and can't fire on them in close combat. The LRM should have a larger minimum than the others LRFs due to their low price (however, i haven't played vasari so idk the price of their LRFs). Long range cap ships are an exception.

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Dread44
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #1 May 25, 2008 5:07:17 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I'd just reduce their hull and shield strength. In most other games, ranged damage dealing units (for example artillery and missile platforms in SupCom) are incredibly fragile to compensate their large range and damage output.
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xxpsyrixx
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #2 May 25, 2008 2:46:23 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I've found fighters across the board to be a satisfactory balance to the LRM. It already has half of the armor of a light frigate, so why nerf it more?(in addition to costing an additional resource, having less hull points and shields) Just spam lt frigates if you have no other choice. 200 lt frigates vs 200 lrms is a close fight to begin with. Factor in full research upgrades and the cost effectiveness of lts and it's more like 200 lts to 150 lrms, which the lts win. A pyrrhic victory at best, but if someone's spamming lrms at you, spam whatever is cheaper back, eventually you win through attrition.
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Astax
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #3 May 27, 2008 8:45:05 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
You realize this would make people who super micro battles, such as myself, invincible? I had a nice solution for LRFs, but it is very long. If enough people want to hear it I may be persuaded to explain. As is, I have no energy.
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Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #4 May 31, 2008 7:03:45 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Hmmmm, how about reducing the LRF's speed down to a point where it's the slowest ship in the game? This way, they can't chase any ship to destroy it, including capital ships. I'm saying this because I've noticed they can chase down ships.

Carriers IMO are a good solution because the squadrons can beat them up without any hassle, but if there are too many LRFs to bring down fast enought, the LRFs would eventually close in on the carriers and destroy them.

I'm want to make it so that LRF spamming is a bad idea instead of a winning 1. (Or any kind of spamming of 1 type of ship.)

I'd like to hear other people's opinion on this besides the LRF spammers, unless they don't say anything like "the LRFs are fine. Dont nerf them more."

IMO, the LRF spamming takes the fun out of the game because they don't allow you to have a mixed fleet (and caps). Mixing your fleet right should be the way to win. And i like having a mixed fleet.
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maheshjr2004
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #5 May 31, 2008 9:40:34 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Personally I think that the main problem with the LRF was that it was too good to be true. Whereas I can think of realistic counterparts for most of the ships in this game I cannot think of one for the LRF. Snipers are slow and need to set up their shots. LRF moves and fires fast. Typically anything that fires fast has low accuracy. Not applicable to the LRF. IMO the LRF should just be removed or entirely revamped as something a bit more realistic. Sure ok artillery units are fragile and slow. But you can use LRF's en masse and they are extremely fast.
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Astax
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #6 May 31, 2008 11:43:06 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Hmmmm, how about reducing the LRF's speed down to a point where it's the slowest ship in the game? This way, they can't chase any ship to destroy it, including capital ships


UMMM you do realize they are about the slowest frigates as is right? They are slower than most caps, and only slightly faster than colony caps I believe, but due to acceleration cant really chase em down.

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Reply #7 June 3, 2008 1:58:52 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Well, it seems you're right there astax (doh!). They ARE slow and it took me a match to realize that.  

Now i think of a new solution: how about increasing the supply demand and price of the LRF?   This would make spamming the LRF more demanding than it is now, which means less of them to deal with.
If there's a problem with that, then idk how to balance it anymore. I just want to end the LRF's overpowered characteristic.

If anyone can think of anything to balance it, i'd like to hear it.
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P5yy
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #8 June 3, 2008 9:37:39 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Wait for my mod lol It will make this game better for mp play.
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Astax
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #9 June 4, 2008 2:14:47 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
The thing people don't realize is if you remove Long Range frigates from the game, people will spam light frigates, (ie Cobalts/Skirmishers/Disciples), and almost no one will want to play vasari lol. And unlike vs Long Range, carriers are actually 100% useless vs light frigates! They have a built in "own the carrier in the face" advantage, meaning medium armor + super speed. I think games were more interesting when Flak was more effective vs LR frigates! When your opponent massed flak you only had 2 options, hit and run, or get HC. Of course some would mix in Light frigates to counter the flak and in the end they ended up with an interesting lightfrigate/flak/LR frigate fleet. Which was very versatile and viable until HC! But in 1.4 flak damage vs LR Frigates was nerfed, perhaps unintentionally, it eliminated a nice counter, and the triple fleet viability with it.
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P5yy
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #10 June 4, 2008 6:18:09 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
In my mod im planning to not remove LRMs but to give them a new role.










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Evernight57
Join Date 03/2008
+1
Reply #11 June 4, 2008 12:57:44 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
@ Astax

Looking at Zryxil's spreadsheet the LRM is the same speed as all the support ships (500) but has 50% more acceleration than all of them. Obviously, carriers are the anti-LRM so making them faster and accel. faster and the LRM accel. at maybe 100 we could see a bit harder counter to the LRM in the form of fighter fielding carriers.

Checks and balances: Light frigs (the anti-carrier) are 60% faster and accel. 100% faster so light frigs still can capture and rape carriers. Not to mention that flak generally cuts the balls off of a carrier anyway, but hey whatev. - different day, different post.

So lets got 500 speed 100 accel (or less) for LRM's and 600 speed and 150 accel for carriers.
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Astax
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #12 June 4, 2008 4:44:14 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Sure I dont disagree that carriers could be faster. However they are not specifically anti LR Frigates. And they do not need to chase the LR Frigates as fighters are the ones doing the killing. They also have Heavy armor which makes them very good at eating the type of damage Long range frigates do. Hell give me fast carriers and I will use them exclusively, just not how you envision.
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