Fumikaa

Join Date 02/2008

Is it just me or is the barrier to entry really high to SoaSE?

I appreciate complex strategy games, don't get me wrong, but is there anyone else besides me who's feeling utterly bewildered by the options?

The tutorials are less than helpful, they only teach the very basic mechanics and don't even cover everything. As a newbie just enterring into SoaSE, it would be really great if I there was a place to just get information.

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

Have you read the manual?

There are also a few "I'm a newbie, please help" threads around here - have a rummage around.

Otherwise, the game is pretty intuitive - just mess about and it should all become clear.

Successfully updated karma reason!

It's not you, the UI's just terrible. The game's actually much less complex than it looks.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The UI is fine... the manual is very basic as are the tutorials...

The problems comes if you aren't a veteral RTS gamer or such.

I had similar problems and still am. You just have to realize the first 2 or 3 games you play are in fact the REAL tutorials.

It took me some time to figure out the mechanics of the game and how you did different things... In the meantime I was getting swamped by the AI.

Game 2... I tried to figure out to deal with asteroid belts, gas clouds, different planets... and the AI waxed me...

Game 3... I tried to work on efficient colonization, making fleets, researching... And I died shortly...

Game 4.. tried out the black market, made some bids on the pirates, tried to make defensive bulwarks around chokepoints... and I was annihilated, but a bit slower

None of these games were long and much of a mental exercise, more self imposed tutorials...

But slowly I'm learning the game and how to efficiently command my units, etc, etc...

Still getting whacked for now...

Javaslinger

Successfully updated karma reason!

goodgimp

Join Date 12/2003

+21

It's a deep game, but less complex than it appears. As others have said, just start up a game and learn as you go.

Something that might help is start a smallish 4-player map. Put 1 (or 2) AIs on your team, and leave the other(s) unteamed. This will give you some time and breathing room to figure things out.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I agree that there is a bit of an upward climb at the beginning, but when did complexity become taboo? Not everything has to be made super easy for it to be enjoyable. To me Sins plays out like a very complex game of chess, and I find it very enjoyable.

Successfully updated karma reason!

It's not you, the UI's just terrible.

I find it to be rather intuitive, and simple to manage.

To me Sins plays out like a very complex game of chess, and I find it very enjoyable

I hate chess (I suck), but I like Sins.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'd suggest finding a friend and having a 'newb game' - that's what me and my friend did when we first picked the game up. Basically, neither of you know what or how to do anything and it becomes a race to learn new stuff. It actually is quite entertaining, and more motivation to learn than some boring tutorial - For example, I found out how to research long before him, but he found out increased fleet size well before I did. I took the win in the end because I had more planets and he couldn't force his way through my defenses with light frigates at the start!

Successfully updated karma reason!

As someone above said, try the manual. If you are like me, you will not find it enjoyable to read a pdf file on the PC, so print it out. Set your printer on the fastest draft printing, and the 80 pages come out quite legible. You can lay down on your sofa and work your way through it rather than getting bleary-eyed tring to read it on the monitor.

I've just been playing through all of the "small maps" one at a time. Nice variety, and you learn a lot. (Just be ready for the one where you start out *losing money* - your only planet is at 25% approval, so you have to immediately turn it into your capital to stop the bleeding!) Every game I play, I pick up a little more knowledge. I haven't lost any game since the first couple, (except for the "no capital" one!) and I think you will find yourself winning soon, too.

Have fun!

Successfully updated karma reason!

You've come the right place. I'd have to say without the help I found in reading the various threads in this forum, I'd be lost too.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The documentation is pretty sketchy, and there are LOTS of different mechanics. The good news is the computer handles them all for you and everything behaves pretty intuitively.

I think the UI is pretty darn good, there are lots of tips and tricks on this forum, for unitlizing the UI more efficiently (it's pretty powerful) and for understanding some of the less-well-understood mechanic.

The barrier to entry IS high. But it's worth the payoff.

(especially once they patch diplomacy and AI)

Successfully updated karma reason!

Play 1 or 2 games against AI, first with an AI on your team, and then a 1v1. Then go online, and hopefully get in a game where you can learn from other players.

Successfully updated karma reason!

One of the big hurdles is that some of the upgrade paths are less than clear. For the new player there are so many tabs and options to upgrade things...and you keep getting errors need more research, but the research is spread across many different screens.

You have Cultural vs Military vs Logistics

Once you get the hang of it, everything makes sense, but it isn't very intuitive at times. Its especially confusing that new ship types are mixed right in tehre with weapon upgrades etc.

A tree structure that was less of a gaggle and more of a branch downward style would have been a less confusing looking way of doing things.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I got about 3 hours into my first game before things started really making sense. After that I restarted and played a small 1v1 to learn how to fight properly, etc, how to defend against pirates... On my third game, which lasted 11 hours, I won.

After my fifth long game, I'd learned most of the nuances... so this is about 40 hours in.

Yeah, I'd say that's a pretty nasty learning curve. It really should've been remedied by some better tutorials prior to release, but most of the gamers I've talked to that tried Sins are liking it or at least understanding it.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I think a story mode would help better our understanding of the game. I am starting to get bored of it, I wish online play was not so fragmented.

Successfully updated karma reason!

My first game - I am two hours in, just now, sans tutorial, was definitively informative. Mostly - Using the black market to stabilize my economy, and several things along the lines of military. I learned alot when a massive advent fleet hit my forces. Mostly: Quantity -MASSIVE quantity of weak ships beat capital ships...

Successfully updated karma reason!

Yeah, capital ships have far less firepower than the same popcap of littlies. Capships are for their abilities, not their firepower.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I find Sins pretty similar in structure to other RTS's, actually. It was all pretty familiar when I started up my first game. The difference is it moves more slowly, and the AI is independent enough to manage several battles at once. So it's kinda like you are playing an ordinary RTS but on several different maps all at once, which I think is great and hope more games follow this lead. However, I do find this game more punishing if you make a wrong strategic decision (like expanding your economy versus your military; one will come at a significant cost to the other), which is good and the way it should be.

Successfully updated karma reason!