I agree with schem about late game eventually it just starts to feel like a grinder where i through random chunks of stuff at the opponent and hope he doesn't have more. whereas early game can't get enough of it.

This happens in EVERY strategy game. Look at Total War series. The building of the empire is great, the later game is grinding. You know nobody can stop you so you grind and grind. That's mostly because the AI is unable to ally and coordinate actions of multiple factions. It results in many games in total but very few FINISHED games.

There should be some kind of "war exhaustion" variable that reduces your war machine output efficiency over time. It should also have tracking for different factions. The longer you are at war with one faction and if no progress is made then it increases accordingly. The system should work both ways of course.

As a consolidated system it should reflect the total investment in the MIC as well as the populations mood and the political muscle to achieve such goals. High ship losses and the people get PO due to the waste of their sons and daughters and stuff like that. The system will of course be adjusted for the factions social orders -etc...

Thank you Ironclad and Stardock for taking our input into consideration AND for having the guts to push back the release date in order to improve the game. I am happy to wait for what will be an even better game.

Hmmm, I wonder what improvements/alterations will be done? Crossing my fingers for the following:

-open connected maps. At the absolute very least, we should have open connection ship travel within star systems, and Phase Lane travel between star systems (that would even make intuitive sense for gamers who like 'realism'). Fuel range limits should be a researchable tech to increase the range of star to star Phase Jumps. Also, star to star to star leapfrogging shouldn't be allowed unless you (or an ally) has at least one planet/asteroid base in the middle star system.

*If open connected maps aren't part of the game, we will need to be able to mod the game to use open connection for mods and multiplayer

-bigger gravity well zones, maybe 4 times bigger.

-Phase Space Interdiction should only have a limited range, and shouldn't effect the whole gravity well zone. Maybe ships outside the effective range of Phase Space Interdictors could still suffer from a longer jump preparation time.

-more realistic scale for all the models in the game...even if just a bit.

-get rid of that awful construction ship concept. Maybe use swarms of those little ships crawling across planets to simulate contractors flying out and building structures in space. Once the project is done, the swarms could move on to the next project or return to the planet. Maybe construction while combat is occurring nearby could simply slow down progress.
*Maybe you could still use the Construction Ship as a deep space building vessel. So bases could still be built in gravity wells that don't have planets or asteroids. This ship should also have slow construction speeds.

-more developed research trees (and moddable research trees).

-a basic selection of fleet formations to choose from for your Ctrl task forces.

-improved threat/target assessment for AI controlled fleets.

-more ship classes to choose from (ie, destroyers, cruisers, star bases and even Mega ships). Some effort should be made to ensure no ship class ever becomes truly obsolete over the course of a game.

-more strike craft types to choose from, each with differing advantages and disadvantages (also, fighters as is need a boost to their anti strike craft capability)

-some basic implementation of Point Defenses. Maybe the flak frigate could be given some point defense ability. Or certain capital ships could have a possible PDS upgrade path.

-planets slowly orbiting stars would be ultra cool. Maybe even allow shifting of phase lane connections depending on orbital positions.

-planets should be more realistically placed around stars (ie: desert planets closer to stars and ice planets further away). To prevent multiplayer imbalances, players should be able to choose their home planet type in the game setup = not everyone rushes to grab all the Terran planets.

-3D placement of planets around the stars would encourage more 3D strategic considerations.

-Phase Exit/Entry points shouldn't always be located in 2D planes, 3D exit/entry points would encourage more 3D planning.

-a more interactive and interesting galaxy. Gravity well destination points should contain more than just planets/asteroids/stars. Gravity well destination points could also have nebula, storms (that effect shields and weapons), derelicts, and so on.

-the ability to use smart weapons that slowly take out planet infrastructure while leaving the populations relatively intact for colonization take over. Of course, using these weapons would take a lot longer to take over a planet then the simple 'nuke and plant' tactic.

-fog of war WITHIN gravity wells would be very welcome. At least give us the ability to mod in tactical sensor ranges.

-and finally, a less finicky diplomatic system for the AI to use. As it is, the AI will make an alliance and then break it a couple of minutes later for no reason or gain.

Hey Schem, this might come as a surprise, but stars actually have gravity wells too. Even dense gas clouds can exert a gravity footprint. If you don't believe me, then look it up

As for ships needing more time to jump to Phase space if they are low on AM...I like it.

Your idea for different exit/entry points in a gravity well seems a bit complex though. Maybe there should be a small randomizer (by only a degree or two) for where ships exit when they reach the other shell of the destination gravity well. The random location could reset itself every couple of minutes. That would hinder the defender's ability to camp out directly on top of the exit point because they could never know precisely where it at that moment until ships arrive. Still, the defender would have a general idea from which direction enemy ships will appear (ships can't for example appear on the total opposite side of the gravity well).

I am glad you aren't against my suggestion that all bodies within a star system use an open connection type of Phase Space travel system and that only Star to Star travel should be forced to use Phase Lanes.

Phase Jump capable Strike Craft would add an extra layer of tactics and strategy to SoaSE. It would add a whole lot of modding potential as well.

As the beta1 is now, the basic fighter and bomber squads that are built on capital ships and platforms cannot leave the gravity well that their 'carriers' are located in. They also suffer from very short death timers if their 'carriers' are destroyed or leave them behind.

SoaSE should have additional choices of more advanced fighters, bombers and corvettes to choose from when deciding what type of strike craft will be built and carried in capital ships and platforms. Some of these more advanced strike craft should have the ability to Phase Jump and leave their carriers behind. Of course for long range strike craft raids to be feasible, their death timers will have to be reduced to almost nil.

For play balance, perhaps these more advanced strike craft could be reserved for dedicated carrier type capital ships or advanced platforms. Also, availability of these models could be tied to the tech research tree. Finally, they should also take far longer to build than the more basic models.

very funny.
before I refute this point; I didnt see your point about the gas clouds
now, to refute it;
but thats more like the difference between cobwebs and a tripple-thick steel wall. the gravity in a gas cloud is very dilute, so dilute that you probably wouldnt even have to worry about the gravitational effects to PS out.

which brings me to another point, there should be an upgrade for the vasari (or maybe the TEC...) where they can drill a hole in their planet and PS out through it. it would just be so freaking awesome for them (this planet is indefensible, so lets go INTO it to get our fleet OUT!!!), it also fits the Vasari and their subterfuge, could be used to draw your fleet into a planet with a PS inhibitor and a lot of static defenses guarding it

I was never against it, I just thought it was a bit hasty to damn the idea to hell so quickly, and especially considering the SD testimony.

I agree, its a bit odd trying to find the attacked planet.

Please disregard my (first!) post if this has come up, but the research function in a turn based game does not translate well to RTS. It would likely become tedious to research the same tech, every new game.

My suggestion is to have a fluctuating tech tree. If any one here has tried SOTS (Sword of the Stars), you know what I'm talking about.

This would add re-playability to the game, as well as remove the tendencies that some RTS have for 'standardized' gameplay (read: you cannot have a tried and true tactic that everyone uses if you don't have the tech tree to back it up). Its also more realistic, which I suppose in my book ads to the fun factor.

Cheers!

1- 3D movement in the game is a big concern for me. After reading some of the many detailed posts from other beta testers on a variety of subjects, it seems that for most people the realism in a game directly correlates to their enjoyment. Needless to say, 3D environment is an absolute essential to the spirit of the game. From what I gather, the functionality is there (‘~’?), but it’s totally useless as all of the planets are in a 2D plane, so there is no need for it.

Also concerning this, I think it would be pretty cool if there were some sort of bonuses for attacking ships from the top/bottom/side. Realistically, the armor on ships would be less on the top, right?

2- Speed of the cap ships. I think this is pretty closely related to the size of the gravity wells. The lumbering capital ships are really spry in their movements, whereas their large size seems to dictate a slower rate of acceleration. They can move from one end of the grav well way too quickly, which makes the placement of forces less tactically important, as you can reposition quickly in case of attack.

Lowering the speed of the cap ships, and increasing the size of the grav wells would be great, and go far towards achieving the ‘epic’ ambitions of this game.

3- On a side, slightly related note, the planets should probably be increased in size, as currently they are tiny! A fleet moving from one side of the well, to the opposite barely has to alter their course to go around the planet, and the size of the orbiting structures is ludicrously large in comparison to the plants.

4- When attacking a planet, why destroy the infrastructure? Some planetary bombardment would be a god idea to soften up the defenses, but there should really be a drop ship / troop ship option that lets you capture the planets infrastructure / population. Also, planetary bombardment should cause some sort of environmental problems that need to be fixed after taking over.

5- On a related note to #4, why destroy the orbital structures at all? When you have control of the planet, the orbital assets should be transferable / captureable.

6- Jumping through grav wells. Its been mentioned before. I’m with the folks that thinks it’s a bad idea to be able to jump through the grav wells.

7- Attack priority list. When the fleet is engaged in combat, its not practical to assign targets to each ship at all times. I think there should be a target priority type menu that lets you select what types of targets each one of your ships should attack (ie: the flack frigate should take out bombers first, than the fighters, THAN fire on whatever else is around, instead of ineffectively firing on the cap ship while the bombers are swarming all over the place).

* Misc stuff I saw on other peoples wish list / complaint list :
-Planetary defenses and such, originating from the planet itself (IE planetary missiles).
-Planetary shields, on the planets surface. That just makes sense.
-Point defenses on cap ships / pd frigates
-Subsystems on ships that can be disabled. EI: Disable the weapons/engine and send a boarding party!
-And yes, the COL cap ship is wimpy looking.

no, no way. that doesnt make sense.
I like how the orbital structures are largely still functional, even if your enemy goes blitzkrieging. it means that your investments wont all go away just because your enemy bothered 3 seconds to go around your static defenses.

except that its unbalanced...

The enemy would have to hold the system and take the planet (hopefully with assualt shuttles and the like, wich now that I think bout it, should be able to go around shields...) to take over the orbital assets. So no blitzkrieg.

I see what your saying, but I still think there are easy ways to balance out those issues.
1- Capturing a planet isn't instantaneous, it should take some time. A sustained siege would be the only way to accomplish this. A marauding force would have to be able to hold off sustained attack from relief forces to capture te planet intact. Otherwise they can just bomb the heck out of it and move on.

2- The catch 22 doesn't hold up. You pound a shield long enough, it goes down. No matter how much research your going to put into it. I mean seriously, why would you put the shield generator in orbit? Its like like a castle with the key to the drawbridge on the outside.

3- The orbital structures are ultimately not stand-alone. They would have to depend on their home planet for resources, material, and personnel. Taking the planet would put you in control of these resources. Still, maybe you would need some sort of way of attacking the orbital structures with troops to get this to work. I dunno.