From what I understand these are woman who signed a petition saying that they had an abortion. Ms. magazine got permission from these women before they published their names. They couldn't fit them all in the magazine so the ones that didn't fit, they put on the website. Their point is that abortion access is becoming more scarce and they want to keep them safe, legal and accessible.

Why should women be the only ones that have the right to choose what they can and can't do with their bodies, and only in this one particular area? "Rights" are funny things in that they can be made up off the top of your head. Abortion denies the parental rights of the father.

As for these women, I have to respect people who stand up for what they believe in and are willing to have it known, even if I can't respect their decision, and think it was a criminal one. I would just urge people to rethink the idea that there is some objective value that requires abortion to be an accepted, legal practice. I can't smoke pot, I can't sell my kidney, I can't drive to the store without wearing a seatbelt, so telling me that we have the inherent right to choose what we do with out bodies falls a little flat.

think these women who are strutting their vagina loud and proud today, are going to rue it later in life.

I don't have a vagina to strut, but if it means safe legal access for all (and not just the wealthy who can go around the law in various ways if it were illegal) then if I had one I'd strut it.

I don't have a vagina to strut, but if it means safe legal access for all (and not just the wealthy who can go around the law in various ways if it were illegal) then if I had one I'd strut it.

Exactly Joe.

I honestly don't think they will Doc. For the simple reason that anyone who would rather a woman use a coat hanger, that is the shame our society should remember.

Remember the real Roe. She regrets it. My answer was not a call to arms against abortion (all know my position on it), but the fact that in life we live and learn, and while all will not regret it, many do.

I killed a pet. Do I shout it? Or do I regret it?

That is what I am saying.

Is it? I don't think so.

I guess if you don't think you are protecting yourself from the harm that taking drugs can do to your body or smoking can do to your lungs, your body..then I guess I can't respond to that one!

and frankly killing an unborn child because it is in jeopardy doesn't make much sense.

If the child's life and the woman's life is in jeopardy...I guess both of them dying is better then.

but what resonated with me in your article is that you take it for granted that abortion is a 'duh' issue.

YOu have to point out to me where in my article I took this discussion as a 'duh' issue. We're obviously on different page, which is apparent, and that's fine, however, make your points and we can discuss them. 'duh' issue....I'm a bit flabbergasted by this statement!

When you hold that we can't outlaw abortion on moral grounds, you remove our "right to decide" as American citizens. (pun intended)

How does it remove your right to decide. YOu have the right to choose not to. What these women are asking for is the right and freedom to be able to choose for themselves. How would we be a democrasy if they can't even do that?!

What happened with Roe v. Wade wasn't a victory, it was a dark day for Democracy, and hopefully one that will be fixed soon. If the people of America want abortion, fine, let them "choose". Right now we are denied the right to decide if the one sacrosanct, unregulatable right is the killing of an unborn child.

Baker, the day when we (everyone) as American cannot freely make a decision to do what they want, is the day when our country is not free anymore. That's the point I'm getting at here. If you want to choose to do something other than what I want, that's your business, go right ahead. If I choose do something that I want and you dont' agree with, that's my business, I should be able to do whats right for me. That's the America we cannot afford to lose. Because the day we do will be a dark day for democracy!

I don't agree with women who uses abortion like they change their underwear, no where in my article or my responses do I state that. I do however agree with a womans' right to choose because it's her fundamental right as an individual!

My answer was not a call to arms against abortion

I didn't think it was Doc.

but the fact that in life we live and learn, and while all will not regret it, many do.I killed a pet. Do I shout it? Or do I regret it?That is what I am saying.

And we do AGREE on this! I stated that I'm not sure why the women who regretted doing this would sign their name to a petition, but I do understand why they would. They would if it means that women lose their right and freedom to choose. That I've come to understand is why they are doijng what they do.

I'm pretty sure I do not agree with this. While it is everybodies right to do what they please with their own bodies

It is their right that's correct.

Are these women really bragging? Or fighting for the right to have an abortion,

I beleive they are fighting for the right to do that.

why should they prohibit them from having one should both members of therelationship agree to have one.

I agree that both people involved have the right. Most times, both people are not involved. Most times the man is out of the picture for whatever reason, and the woman will decide to do whatever is right for her in that case. The hope will be the choice is to have the child and give it up for adoption. There is still so much stygma placed on an unwed, unmarried woman these days and it's worse when she lives in a small town. Is it any wonder some women do what they do? Because they don't have the support or the money, that is sometimes the reason why some women do it. As for the others who dont' give a damn either way, that's a different story.

I’m sure they know that there might be consequences, harassment and such like that because the people who don’t believe in this can be maniacal fanatics who don’t respect an individual’s choice.If this is an unlawful assembly, then these women have no right to do what they are doing.

The unlawful assembly would be the those people who harrass people who make the decision for themselves. It's like politics and religion, and the subject does have a lot to do with both Xythe, this is the type of topic where some feel it's too taboo to talk about even today. or they end up being mad at each other, fighting or worse.

I hope I responded well to your post, as I said, I'm not to good with political discussions.

You held your own Xythe, not to worry!

"If the child's life and the woman's life is in jeopardy...I guess both of them dying is better then."

There's a supreme difference between doing all you can to save the life of the mother and child and in the end the child dying, and killing the child pre-emptively as though it was a "condition".

"YOu have to point out to me where in my article I took this discussion as a 'duh' issue."

I say that because you pre-suppose that abortion is a right and that it would be somehow unjust if the American people democratically decided to end the practice legally. You characterize opponents as "frenzied factions" or moneybag interests, as if NoW and the ACLU aren't five shades more active, more influence peddling, and more outspoken.

I don't believe, for instance, that it is right for 16 year olds to have sex. I can't, though, say it is a great wrong for the people of Washington DC to democratically decide such. I have my values, they have theirs, and we live in a nation where the people, not esoteric ideals, rule.

"How does it remove your right to decide."

By making abortion an untouchable ideal you remove the right of the people of the US to decide democratically what they want to be legal in their nation. We have been denied a voice on this topic by a few black-robed dictators 30 years ago. Federal authorities had no good cause to overcome the democratically decided wishes of the states.

"Baker, the day when we (everyone) as American cannot freely make a decision to do what they want, is the day when our country is not free anymore. That's the point I'm getting at here. "

The US body of law is volume after volume of things that we can't freely do without legal opposition, and a great deal of it is "victimless", "My own body" stuff. I defy you to name one other aspect of your life, one other personal practice that isn't legally regulated by the government.

I don't believe you can. In that light, why do you believe that women have the special right to be free from imposition on this one, narrow issue? Why can we legislate whether or not I sell a rich guy my kidney or have a doctor help me commit suicide, and yet women have the unfettered right to pay a doctor to kill their unborn child?

"I do however agree with a womans' right to choose because it's her fundamental right as an individual! "

I think you and I both have reason to thank God that our society was designed so that the PEOPLE can decide if such a statement is true. The perspective of pro-abortion organizations seems to be that these rights simply exist as some platonic ideal, outside of the will of the people.

Do you believe that to be true? Do you believe that there are esoteric ideals that we should have imposed on us whether we democratically deem them worthy or not? If so, do you really trust the government to not abuse such a blank check to impose ideals?

If so, do you really trust the government to not abuse such a blank check to impose ideals?

The will of the people, some people is to stop others from having free will to do what they want to do in a country that gives them this freedom. How is it different from the religious zealots who want to impose their religion on those who do not believe in it? It's basically the same thing. Do people who do not believe in Christianity or any form of religion protest when this kind of thing is being imposed on them?

And once the people decide to say it's ok for the government to outlaw people making the freedom to choose whether they want to keep an unborn, undeveloped fetus or not, isn't this the same thing as handing the government a blank check to impose their own ideals? How is that not the same thing?

There's a supreme difference between doing all you can to save the life of the mother and child and in the end the child dying, and killing the child pre-emptively as though it was a "condition".

I'm always in favor of a life worth fighting for, or dying for, always. However if both lives are in jeopardy and there is nothing else that can be done, what would you suggest be done? This is what I'm talking about. Not some blase` 'condition' that is dreamed up because someone wants to swallow a pill or get rid of a pregnancy.

pre-suppose that abortion is a right and that it would be somehow unjust if the American people democratically decided to end the practice legally.

It is a woman's right to have a choice and it would be unjust if an individual's rights were smothered because of someone elses beliefs.

You characterize opponents as "frenzied factions" or moneybag interests, as if NoW and the ACLU aren't five shades more active, more influence peddling, and more outspoken.

They are all the same. Frenzied factions that wants others to do what they want. The ACLU, NOW, those who are fighting against a woman's right to choose. Have you forgotten how many doctors were killed, how many families were targeted and harrassed, how many of these harrassers had to go into hiding because they know how they do what they do is wrong. They would rather kill others to get their points across. The ACLU actions and positions on many issues are not what I agree with so they are in the same boat.

moneybag interests

Are those corporations who lobby the politicians to do their own bidding. Things get slide under the table or someone close their eyes to the reality of what goes on in other to get someone's point to be heard or to do favors; are you saying that doesn't happen? It shouldn't, but it does.

I have my values, they have theirs, and we live in a nation where the people, not esoteric ideals, rule.

Exactly, we all have our values. We all have different ideals. One somehow balances the other (there is a system in place) because if it didn't, well we wouldn't be so free now would we?

I think you and I both have reason to thank God that our society was designed so that the PEOPLE can decide if such a statement is true. The perspective of pro-abortion organizations seems to be that these rights simply exist as some platonic ideal, outside of the will of the people.

I hope that is not true, about those organizations, but I would be remiss if I didn't say it was. Because both the pro-life, and the pro-choice organizations, are set in their own beliefs, just like you and I are. We believe our arguments, what we believe is the right way. NOthing we say to each other is going to sway that fact. However, I do thank God that in our society PEOPLE CAN DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES, that's the choice I'm advocating. That's the choice I choose.

The US body of law is volume after volume of things that we can't freely do without legal opposition, and a great deal of it is "victimless", "My own body" stuff. I defy you to name one other aspect of your life, one other personal practice that isn't legally regulated by the government.

I'm aware that there are volumes, lots of it! That's why we are a society, we have rules and regulations. Without these we would not have one.


I can't think of one at the moment, at 12:59am, I'm a bit fuzzy. Admittedly there is a lot of our life that is regulated by the laws of our society, as it should be or there would be anarchy however, there are some things that should not be. There are some things that should be left to an individual to do as they wish IF they choose to. ANd only if it's being abuse, and yes, I know it is, then and only then should someone, a family, a friend, intervene. Not the government, not a bunch of strangers. A family could be the local pastor even, someone known to the individual, not faceless people deciding for them.

why do you believe that women have the special right to be free from imposition on this one, narrow issue?

Because there are so many women out there who have no voice, they have no say on the fact that their bodies are being abused by someone they love, that they have to hide from an abusive person, that they can't even do things of their own free will, even in today's society. In this day and age there are women and girls who still have no voice. That's what I'm talking about. To take awasy this freedom to decide for themselves, this is their own free will, that would be tragic!

I admit I come at this from a pro-life angle and so can't really wrap my mind around the fact its legal in this country to kill our offspring.

I don't advocate killing children, killing babies, I don't agree with it personally. I've never done it, I did have to choose whether I wanted to think about it if anything was wrong with my third born. I was asked that question. I chose not to even consider it because it is not my belief to do so. However I HAD A CHOICE To CHose NOT to. MY Choice. NOt the doctors who wanted me to do some exam that would clear up doubts. I had my husband beside me and not many women are this lucky to have love and support from the man involved. I had the freedom of free will.

Why should this issue be anyone elses business but the people involved? The people involved can get others they choose to get involved for guidance to discuss etc. Why should it be decided by legislature or by strangers what a woman should do?

I know I"ll talk til I'm blue in the face and I"m asking questions that doesn't matter to some who don't really care to ask, however I'll still ask and I'll still believe what I do and I'll still advocate for the right of a woman to choose.

The unlawful assembly would be those assembling without a permit or the required credentials to assemble?

That too!

(Anonymous)UnknownOctober 20, 2006 13:47:41Reply #19 I believe abortion is very wrong. You are killing a child. When you get an abortion they usually take out the child peice by peice. That is horrible and disgusting. It also really harms a womens ovarys, etc. If you want a child when your older or when you have the money there is a chance you will not be able too. The more abortions you get the higher the chance of not being able to get pregnant. There is other options ladies, have the child and put it up for adoption, atleast the child gets a chance at life. I am not able to tell people what to do but please if you are thinking of an abortion, do not do it. Your killing a person's chance at life.

Thank you for your comment. There are definately risk factors that every woman who has that choice should be aware of.